My theory is that they are living in a world of hierarchies and apologizing is admitting a mistake, which takes them down a few levels on the hierarchy of power/popularity.

  • A Chilean Cyborg@lemmy.worldEnglish
    264·
    2 years ago

    Nah, intention is what matters to judge a person, accidents or ignorance are unavoidable, and many other parts of human nature at play here as well…

    You also need to just understand that people are flawed and what they do about that is what matters.

    • ᗪIᐯEᖇGEᑎTᕼᗩᖇᗰOᑎIᑕᔕ@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      164·
      2 years ago

      Yup exactly. I would even go so far as to say that insisting on getting an apology when they had no intention of hurting is tyrannic. “You were insensitive and now i’m hurt. Now i have the right to make you feel the same way!” – No, doesn’t compute.

        • ᗪIᐯEᖇGEᑎTᕼᗩᖇᗰOᑎIᑕᔕ@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          31·
          2 years ago

          Maybe i don’t quite understand. I just hope that i didn’t hurt your feelings with what i said, just because i was unaware of your strong feelings on this topic. If so, then we’d have a complicated situation which also involves slight differences in language and culture. I could not sincerely apologise, and such things might happen again.

          Apologising would be wrong, but there are ways to sympathise with the other and at the same time staying at eye level.

          Here is where i come from:
          I have been on both sides. Being constantly hurt by people not being sensitive enough, and seeing that as their responsibility, hence making them responsible for my feelings. OTOH, falsely apologising too much, saying “sorry” when there was no need to, and therefore being self-degrading.

          During my process i came to the conclusion that both is not right. There is no “crime of offending”, so to say – not even if an offence was intended (but that’s the advanced “peaceful warrior” class). It is in fact my own “ego” that was (falsely) alarming me of being attacked. (The word “ego” is antiquated but shall suffice here.)
          The others do as they do, so it is up to me to actually decide if i want to feel hurt or not. Therefore, it is indeed in the receivers responsibility (ability to respond!). Talking about adults of course; it’s different with minors. –
          I found out that i am free to choose if i want to feel offended or not. So i chose not to but instead try to get a better understanding of the sender. It became very hard to hurt my feelings because i can “shield” my receiver, to find it rather interesting to get to look into other people’s sets. (Conflict situations play a valuable part when i do process/shadow work with others.) – I also feel the need to apologise very rarely; mostly when i was really being ignorant, and i often remind others that there is nothing to apologise about when there was just some misunderstanding or such.

          I read that comment chain again which you are referring to, and had to read it twice because there seemed to be a contradiction. So if you don’t mind, i can tell what discrepancy there is. May this help solve the puzzle. Here is what i see happen:

          • The sender does some action or says something, ignorant or unknowing of the fact that their action can hurt you. They had no intention to do so, and the receiver acknowledges that.
          • Still, the receiver feels hurt.
          • The receiver als acknowledges that the sender can not be forced to apologise because such an apology would be false. Demanding it could lead to the sender going offensive and telling the receiver to just “cope with it”.

          I solved this for myself by replacing the middle part. If there was no offence intended, then i can choose not to be hurt, but react in a different way. The best way to go is open communication if possible: “I know you didn’t mean it and i’m not blaming you, but i must let you know that you just met a very sensitive point in me. I would like to tell you …”

          But! … There is another desire here at play, and that appears to be the receiver’s need that their feelings be addressed in a comforting way. An apology will not really have that effect anyway; that rather works toward building awareness in the sender. I think what the receiver desires is being helped back on their feet rather than the sender being knocked to the ground for revenge. Therefore, this is asking not for a feel of guilt – but for compassion. 🙂

          • BOMBS@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
            2·
            2 years ago

            I just hope that i didn’t hurt your feelings with what i said, just because i was unaware of your strong feelings on this topic.

            Not at all! Personally, I welcome other perspectives because they help me grow. I would hate to be in an environment where everyone agrees with me because then I would never learn anything new. You provided a very thorough analysis, and I appreciate it.

            There is another desire here at play, and that appears to be the receiver’s need that their feelings be addressed in a comforting way. An apology will not really have that effect anyway; that rather works toward building awareness in the sender. I think what the receiver desires is being helped back on their feet rather than the sender being knocked to the ground for revenge. Therefore, this is asking not for a feel of guilt – but for compassion. 🙂

            Yes! I think this is the point. Someone is hurt, and they are seeking consolation, whether that be an apology or some sort of compassionate support. However, I agree that a false apology would not only be inappropriate, but can also be hurtful since the person falsely apologizing might build resentment for doing something they do not want to appease another person’s feelings.

            Additionally, taking your analysis and applying it to long-term situations, I think it’s important to be aware of relationships in which one has to often make a purposeful decision to choose whether or not to be offended. If this is happening frequently, then one should really assess why it is happening so much. As autistic people, we can become victims of emotional abuse because we either miss cues or gaslight ourselves as a result of the way were were raised (you’re too sensitive, you don’t understand people, etc.).

            • ᗪIᐯEᖇGEᑎTᕼᗩᖇᗰOᑎIᑕᔕ@sopuli.xyzEnglish
              3·
              2 years ago

              Yes! I can’t tell how difficult such a personal development would be for anyone else. I appear not to have that difficulty with reading cues so much, plus i took a very special path in life (part-time modern-day hermit), and being on my own, such things took years. And now i’m still switching forth and back between those states. 😅

    • mzesumzira@partizle.comEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      Accidents of ignorance are unavoidable, but accountability is important.
      We all make mistakes, what we do about them includes taking responsibility and apologizing, otherwise we’re bound to repeat them and spoil relationships.

    • usualsuspect191@lemmy.caEnglish
      2·
      2 years ago

      All very true. Now if it’s something that repeatedly happens despite them now knowing it’s hurtful? Well then even if the action itself isn’t deliberate, the inaction to notice/stop or change can make it equivalent to being deliberate.

    • Halasham@dormi.zoneEnglish
      21·
      2 years ago

      The problem with that is that you get the maliciously ignorant who’ll staunchly refuse to learn and hide behind ‘that wasn’t my intention’/‘I didn’t mean to’ etc. all while keeping up the hurt just as much as the first time.