Over 2 percent of the US’s electricity generation now goes to bitcoin::US government tracking the energy implications of booming bitcoin mining in US.

  • daniskarma@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Is it not a way in which some governments could collaborate to end this Bitcoin madness?

    Genuinely question.

    Like maybe some big countries could agree to collaborate and join resources to make a 51% attack and bring Bitcoin price to 0 so people stop wasting resources on it.

    2% of enery usage for something that do not add any value to society is INSANE.

    • doylio@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      I think the best solution would be to properly tax carbon. That way Bitcoin miners would either become unprofitable or move to greener energy.

      I don’t think it’s a good idea to establish the precedent that gov’t can decide what you can and cannot do with your energy. You may think it’s a waste of energy, but if the externality is properly taxed, I don’t see the problem with letting it continue

      • makeasnek@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        I think the best solution would be to properly tax carbon. That way Bitcoin miners would either become unprofitable or move to greener energy.

        I think cap and trade can be a good idea, the problem is getting all the countries in the world to sign onto it. Any country that doesn’t ends up with a competitive advantage. But if you somehow got them to all agree, blockchain actually provides a perfect way to build a cap-and-trade system that every country can participate in, transparently, without having to trust one country or group of countries to run it honestly. That’s the essential problem blockchain solves: administering systems trustlessly.

        Bitcoin miners do by and large use green energy since it tends to be the cheapest (off-peak hours from over-provisioned grids). If electricity gets more expensive, it doesn’t mean it becomes unprofitable to mine, that’s only one side of the equation. The other side is how much people are willing to pay to get transactions added to the blockchain, which is a number, on average, that has increased year after year. Not that you ever need to make an on-chain transaction, with Bitcoin lightning you can do transactions off-chain while getting much of the security of on-chain transactions. You can move money internationally in under a second for pennies in fees. And it works just as easily as venmo. In fact, if you have cash app on your phone, you already have the ability to use the lightning network, though it’s a custodial wallet (meaning you are trusting cash app not to take/lose your BTC).

      • BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca
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        5 months ago

        Good. Most don’t use proof of work anymore because they don’t feel the need to watch the world burn for no reason other than propping up techno bros.

          • ikapoz@sh.itjust.works
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            5 months ago

            If governments started regulating bitcoin because it was proof of work based then people aren’t going to pump real money into another proof of work scheme to replace it - why would they take the risk of it happening again when there are alternatives? the mining profit margins would disappear and so would they.

            • WhiteHawk@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              It woulf take years and years to pass such a ban in a significant number of countries - assuming they would ever want to cooperate on this, that is

    • makeasnek@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      Some have tried, they have all failed. Bitcoin is international. A 51% attack is so implausibly expensive that nobody really has the resources to pull it off. Even if you had enough money and energy to burn, there is the small problem of acquiring enough of the specialized hardware to do it (ASIC miners), and potentially the specs and fab to make that hardware. People will see it coming a mile away. Don’t want to use ASICs? Enjoy at least a 100x increase in energy and equipment costs. And it gets more expensive every year. If you had that much money to put into destroying Bitcoin, it would be much better spent on an ad campaign telling people Bitcoin was bad than doing a 51% attack.

      A 51% attack doesn’t prove Bitcoin is broken, it proves the protocol is working exactly as expected. A 51% attack causes a temporary fork. This happens all the time organically when two miners find the next block at the same time, it’s a natural part of the protocol. That’s why for really large or important transactions on main chain, you wait a few blocks before considering them fully secured.

      Bitcoin’s value to society is the ability to easily transfer money from point A to B and having a clear fiscal policy it has kept to for 15 years, 365 days a year, 24/7 without a single hour of downtime, a bank holiday, or getting hacked. There’s a reason big money like hedge funds and private banking are investing in it: it’s actually useful and has massive potential. The market cap of Bitcoin is 850 BILLION USD, that’s bigger than the GDP of Sweden or Israel or Vietnam. People use it to move over a trillion dollars of value a year. You can debate how much of that movement is trading & speculation vs use as a currency, but it’s a trillion nonetheless. I personally pay for things regularly with Bitcoin, you’d be surprised how many places you can spend it when you start looking. And it’s available to anybody with a cellphone and halfway reliable internet access, including the billions of people who are “unbanked” and lack access to stable banking infrastructure.

      Transactions on Bitcoin lightning occur in under a second and cost pennies in fees. That’s to send it across the room or across the globe. Remittance services and bank wires use just as much energy and cost 10x-1000x as much. And they waste not just energy but human capital as well, we no longer need humans manually sending bank wires like it’s 1910. You just don’t see headlines about the energy impact of bank wires or western union because it’s not novel, we just accept it as a cost of our financial system.

      That’s not even getting into the secondary costs to the environment of running a society on an economy based on an inflationary currency which requires that currency be rapidly spent because it’s getting constantly devalued. That’s a great strategy to rapidly industrialize the world, but it’s not a great strategy on a globe with limited resources. Tell me, if you knew your dollar would be worth 10% more next year, would you be more hesitant to spend it? Might you consume less if you knew saving money in your bank account would actually cause it’s value to stay the same or increase over time? Might you focus your spending more on quality products that will last instead of just buying the cheapest thing because if it breaks, you can just buy a new one? This isn’t just on a personal level, this same kind of calculus is used by big investment firms to build everything that won’t last. Buildings, stadiums, entire cities, financed with money that is constantly losing value. Bitcoin’s value relative to goods and services will fluctuate like any currency does, but the supply of the currency does not increase. There are 21 million which will ever be minted. Your 0.1BTC will always be 0.1BTC and will always represent 0.1/128M% of the total supply. If the Bitcoin economy grows, you share in that growth and the value it produces instead of seeing the difference printed away and given to whoever controls the money supply and whoever they want to give it to.

      • hark@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Skip ad. Bitcoin is pumped through ridiculous leverage and printing of “stable” coins like tether. The scam hasn’t unraveled yet, but that doesn’t mean it won’t.

        • makeasnek@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          Do you know that Tether and Bitcoin are different things? Because it seems like you don’t.

          • TypicalHog@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            People defending Binance and Tether are either:

            • Clueless and haven’t done any research
            • Brainwashed
            • Part of the Binance/Tether cartel
            • Paid to do it
            • Lying to themselves
            • Aware of the truth, but want their bags to continue to be propped up by fraudsters

            Which one are you?

            • makeasnek@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              IDGAF about Tether, IMO it will collapse one day, and the world will be better for it. It’s a currency whose basis is “trust me bro”.