i just want to point out that, in the same way XMP is not a valid example of EEE, neither is Flipboard a good example of a massive megacorp federating. Flipboard’s algorithms have never incited violence in Myanmar and that makes 100% of the difference.
my concern is not EEE, and I agree that i don’t get why that’s the focus.
my concern is that we are dealing with Meta—an absolutely massive, soulless corporation which has shown dozen upon hundreds of times that it will prioritizethegrowth of its shareholders’ paycheck well before the afterthought of caring if its algorithms end up wreaking addiction and violence.
call that FUD if you want, i call it learning from well-documented experience.
Again, you’re not actually making an argument about meta doing anything to make the fediverse worse than it is, you’re not even arguing that metas actions in those other situations are directly applicable and will happen here, you’re just saying “look at these bad things that Meta did before, sure other bad things must happen”.
That is the literal textbook definition of a FUD argument.
Let’s flip this around: Show me a thing that Meta has touched that hasn’t turned to shit. Why risk the same fate when we don’t have to? What is meta bringing to the table that would warrant foolhardiness on our part?
See the opposite of FUD is naivete, hubris, make-believe, not something one wants to be engaged in either.
Maybe 10k Euro a month, eyeballing from total amount and the fuckton of other donors. Two entry-level developers (blender indeed pays well starting at 58000 Euro p.a.). They should rather take that money and hire some moderators in Myanmar.
WTH would they develop cycles it’s not like they’re making movies or such. Or really anything that’s not interactive. But yes meta does a lot of open source work in general. Probably should’ve specified “a product they make money with”.
Hmmm page 95 values the EPIC megagrant at 87,540 yet they’re in the corporate patron tier, should be platinum.
Honestly, lots of PC gaming fans are unhappy with Oculus focusing on the broad consumer market, but the Q2/Q3 are genuinely impressive pieces of hardware/software and are the first devices to actually meaningfully push VR even somewhat into the mainstream.
Huh, if only there was an example of Meta existing on a decentralized platform where I could choose to visit them and interact with their stuff but I didn’t have to.
Oh huh, would you look at that, turns out this little decentralized network called the worldwide web has been running it this whole time!
But in the scenario of lemmy / mastodon, you only ever interact with your chosen frontend / instance and it only communivates to facebook through activitypub not through the general web standards. Even if facebook were to just embed a bunch of js code as an activitypub text feed, your chosen instance would still have to choose whether or not to render it by default, or to give you the option, or to block it entirely.
It’s like people don’t want to email people with Gmail addresses because Google at some point killed off XMPP*, in fearing that email altogether would be killed off.
which it didn’t even do, XMPP was a terrible protocol by itself already.
Waving a pithy saying around in place of an actual argument, doesn’t make it any less of a FUD argument. I mean can you even name 14 open source projects that facebook has destroyed? Or just 14 bad vibes you’ve gotten?
There’s no good product that Meta has ever touched that’s been made better after their involvement. Why go for bat for a company that has consistently shown it’s goal is to make things worse for the end user?
I’m not going to bat for them, I’m just not spreading FUD and getting whipping myself into a panic over a non issue.
Again, I urge you to stop using FUD generalities like “they have the midas touch of poop, everything they touch turns to poopy”, and present an actual grounded explanation of how federating with them will cause an actual problem.
Well look, I don’t have enough insight into the design or backend for Lemmy or mastodon, but Facebook has heavily invested into their network, and likely aims to grow.
How could they do that? All of this seems blockable on the client end (meaning I’m not good/shitty enough to work at Facebook) but imagine:
an algorithm takes a selection of high ranking fb posts and cross-posts to Lemmy, far faster and more frequently than regular users. Oh, you’ll need to login to read.
threads could wholesale repost other users and their comments, but behind a threads login wall
Basically do some scummy behavior using our public statements, questions and comments, all to get more attention devoted to what’s happening on their site (and its associated ads).
an algorithm takes a selection of high ranking fb posts and cross-posts to Lemmy, far faster and more frequently than regular users. Oh, you’ll need to login to read.
So what? The Lemmy meme communities make posts way faster and more frequently than any other communities. Did I solve that by demanding my instance admin not federate with those instances or communities? No, I just unsubscribed from them.
And if Threads send encrypted / locked posts to Lemmy that cant be read on Lemmy clients then you just defederate from them then.
threads could wholesale repost other users and their comments, but behind a threads login wall
So? How does Threads forcing their users to sign in make your experience using Lemmy any worse?
I thought your second point was ~ ‘Lemmy instances shouldn’t federate with meta because you don’t want them getting your data’, not, ‘it doesn’t matter whether or not we federate because they can scrape that data off Lemmy anyways’.
i just want to point out that, in the same way XMP is not a valid example of EEE, neither is Flipboard a good example of a massive megacorp federating. Flipboard’s algorithms have never incited violence in Myanmar and that makes 100% of the difference.
my concern is not EEE, and I agree that i don’t get why that’s the focus.
my concern is that we are dealing with Meta—an absolutely massive, soulless corporation which has shown dozen upon hundreds of times that it will prioritize the growth of its shareholders’ paycheck well before the afterthought of caring if its algorithms end up wreaking addiction and violence.
call that FUD if you want, i call it learning from well-documented experience.
Again, you’re not actually making an argument about meta doing anything to make the fediverse worse than it is, you’re not even arguing that metas actions in those other situations are directly applicable and will happen here, you’re just saying “look at these bad things that Meta did before, sure other bad things must happen”.
That is the literal textbook definition of a FUD argument.
Let’s flip this around: Show me a thing that Meta has touched that hasn’t turned to shit. Why risk the same fate when we don’t have to? What is meta bringing to the table that would warrant foolhardiness on our part?
See the opposite of FUD is naivete, hubris, make-believe, not something one wants to be engaged in either.
I still really enjoy Beat Saber, I think it continues to improve
speaks volumes that a rythm game was the only example we could come up with from a company that has literally billions at its disposal lol
It was just the first thing that came to mind, but I know they also contribute to / fund the Blender Foundation.
Maybe 10k Euro a month, eyeballing from total amount and the fuckton of other donors. Two entry-level developers (blender indeed pays well starting at 58000 Euro p.a.). They should rather take that money and hire some moderators in Myanmar.
Their 2023 report isn’t out yet, but “corporate patron” tier members contribute at least €240K/year, which is a not-insignificant amount of Blender’s total €2,170,250 in income for 2022 (page 96). According to the same report, they also contribute development work to the Cycles renderer (page 95).
WTH would they develop cycles it’s not like they’re making movies or such. Or really anything that’s not interactive. But yes meta does a lot of open source work in general. Probably should’ve specified “a product they make money with”.
Hmmm page 95 values the EPIC megagrant at 87,540 yet they’re in the corporate patron tier, should be platinum.
Honestly, lots of PC gaming fans are unhappy with Oculus focusing on the broad consumer market, but the Q2/Q3 are genuinely impressive pieces of hardware/software and are the first devices to actually meaningfully push VR even somewhat into the mainstream.
Huh, if only there was an example of Meta existing on a decentralized platform where I could choose to visit them and interact with their stuff but I didn’t have to.
Oh huh, would you look at that, turns out this little decentralized network called the worldwide web has been running it this whole time!
That’s a pretty good example actually. React has been a boon to webdev imo, and I love using it. Yarn too.
Don’t forget the less sexy stuff like watchman
You don’t have to if they visit you themselves
But in the scenario of lemmy / mastodon, you only ever interact with your chosen frontend / instance and it only communivates to facebook through activitypub not through the general web standards. Even if facebook were to just embed a bunch of js code as an activitypub text feed, your chosen instance would still have to choose whether or not to render it by default, or to give you the option, or to block it entirely.
It’s like people don’t want to email people with Gmail addresses because Google at some point killed off XMPP*, in fearing that email altogether would be killed off.
Waving a pithy saying around in place of an actual argument, doesn’t make it any less of a FUD argument. I mean can you even name 14 open source projects that facebook has destroyed? Or just 14 bad vibes you’ve gotten?
omg you think im pithy ☺️
There’s no good product that Meta has ever touched that’s been made better after their involvement. Why go for bat for a company that has consistently shown it’s goal is to make things worse for the end user?
I’m not going to bat for them, I’m just not spreading FUD and getting whipping myself into a panic over a non issue.
Again, I urge you to stop using FUD generalities like “they have the midas touch of poop, everything they touch turns to poopy”, and present an actual grounded explanation of how federating with them will cause an actual problem.
Well look, I don’t have enough insight into the design or backend for Lemmy or mastodon, but Facebook has heavily invested into their network, and likely aims to grow.
How could they do that? All of this seems blockable on the client end (meaning I’m not good/shitty enough to work at Facebook) but imagine:
Basically do some scummy behavior using our public statements, questions and comments, all to get more attention devoted to what’s happening on their site (and its associated ads).
So what? The Lemmy meme communities make posts way faster and more frequently than any other communities. Did I solve that by demanding my instance admin not federate with those instances or communities? No, I just unsubscribed from them.
And if Threads send encrypted / locked posts to Lemmy that cant be read on Lemmy clients then you just defederate from them then.
So? How does Threads forcing their users to sign in make your experience using Lemmy any worse?
No need for an antagonistic tone here, just conversing with you.
I think this would be a problem now for people like me who enjoy browsing all, where the feed would get overwhelmed by facebook-sourced content.
And I don’t like meta as a company, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that many people do not want to provide any data whatsoever to them via threads etc.
Except that you’re posting publicly and there is absolutely nothing that prevents Meta from scraping all of your lemmy activity as it is.
Precisely my 2nd point.
I thought your second point was ~ ‘Lemmy instances shouldn’t federate with meta because you don’t want them getting your data’, not, ‘it doesn’t matter whether or not we federate because they can scrape that data off Lemmy anyways’.