that’s very little politics, they’re banning one single political ideology. And fascism is an ideology that’s fundamentally incompatible with the concept of human rights, whose need of respect in the 21st century should be taken for granted and shouldn’t be a political question, i.e. a question which is answered in the political discourse, at all. So yeah, little politics. Fascism = bad, should be universally recognized as true. Nationalism per se not necessarily bad, but palingenetic ultranationalism, which is definition of fascism I’m using, definitely.
There’s no way to completely get away from politics, it’s just so pervasive in modern culture. If an open-source project is going to take a political stance, this is one that’s high on the list of not-bad politics
You’re right, being against fascism isn’t ‘too much politics’. However, “This is an antifa instance” being the first thing on the front page of the instance certainly is. It shows that the admin’s political stance is important enough to them that it’s the first thing they want everyone seeing. Between this, the AMA on reddit, and across the instances, the dev’s political leanings seem to be inserted wherever and whenever possible.
Nothing’s wrong with politics. Hell, I even share very similar views to those here, I just think that kind of discussion is better suited to a politics-based community, and not as multiple posts plastered on the front page.
I can’t see which post you’re replying to. These thread lines are an optical illusion.
Antifa’s method of activism is controversial
While there is nothing controversial about being anti-racist, Antifa is not simply anti-racist. It’s the style of activism that’s controversial. From wikipedia:
Antifa is an anti-fascist political movement in the United States[2][3][4][5] comprising a diverse[6][7] array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both non-violent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[8][9][10][11] Antifa political activists engage in protest tactics such as digital activism and militancy,[11][12] sometimes involving property damage, physical violence and harassment, against fascists, racists and the far-right
Petitioning for policy reform is relatively non-controversial. But that’s not Antifa. Obviously some of the more extreme actions (e.g. violence and property destruction) are controversial - and Antifa is open to them.
Antifa’s ideology is controversial
Components of Antifa ideology:
anti-racism (non-controversial of course)
anti-capitalism (obviously controversial and IMO unpopular)
anarchy (obviously controversial and IMO unpopular)
I can’t even get my head around how it’s possible to be both anti-capitalist and anarchist at the same time. Anarchy is also favored by the extreme right, and obviously anarchy is a recipe for pure uncontrolled capitalism – most oppressive form of capitalism. What am I missing?
Lemmy censorship
In the case of lemmy.ml leadership, what we see is extreme censorship. We’re not just talking censorship of trashy messages. I recently posted a thread on the status of the cock.li email servers, and it was censored because the word “cock” appeared in the domain name. (proof). Obviously it’s essential to mention the domain name of the service we’re talking about.
No one will care if racist msgs get censored, but any post that’s incompatible with an anti-capitalist or anti-government viewpoint is also likely to be censored when you see how fast and loose they are with the censor trigger.
I never said or implied that. This trend of assuming anyone who disagrees with you is ‘far right’ or ‘alt-right’ helps nothing. Also curious is how all of my comments in this thread suddenly have 1 more downvote than a few hours ago before you replied. Probably just chance.
That aside, I actually agree with the views here, I just don’t like being beaten over the head with it platform-wide.
Well again, I never said anti-facist was too radical for me. With all due respect, I think you’re a little too quick to label people ‘far right’. I agree with your sentiment, I agree and absolutely would consider myself and any sane person antifa; my only disagreement is with how hard political views are pushed here. I want lemmy to succeed and I know that even if they agree with the views presented here, pontential users could be turned off by how zealous it comes off sometimes.
Too much politics for an open source project in my opinion
that’s very little politics, they’re banning one single political ideology. And fascism is an ideology that’s fundamentally incompatible with the concept of human rights, whose need of respect in the 21st century should be taken for granted and shouldn’t be a political question, i.e. a question which is answered in the political discourse, at all. So yeah, little politics. Fascism = bad, should be universally recognized as true. Nationalism per se not necessarily bad, but palingenetic ultranationalism, which is definition of fascism I’m using, definitely.
edit: hi lemmy, first post here
How exactly is “being against the concept of fascism” too much politics? Because that’s what the term “antifa” abbreviates for, nothing more.
It’s a political movement
Fascism itself is also a political movement. Of course the movement against it is also political, but I don’t think it’s “too” political.
I’d have said the same thing even for proclamed fascism. I just prefer politics free stuff, It works better with everything
Except literally everything can be political. Even the very idea of open source.
Yes I know, and that’s not great as I sad
There’s no way to completely get away from politics, it’s just so pervasive in modern culture. If an open-source project is going to take a political stance, this is one that’s high on the list of not-bad politics
Well not plastering it on the front page of the instance is a good start.
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You’re right, being against fascism isn’t ‘too much politics’. However, “This is an antifa instance” being the first thing on the front page of the instance certainly is. It shows that the admin’s political stance is important enough to them that it’s the first thing they want everyone seeing. Between this, the AMA on reddit, and across the instances, the dev’s political leanings seem to be inserted wherever and whenever possible.
Nothing’s wrong with politics. Hell, I even share very similar views to those here, I just think that kind of discussion is better suited to a politics-based community, and not as multiple posts plastered on the front page.
I don’t understand how being anti-racist can possibly be controversial in any way… and if it is for you, then I’m not sure what that says about you.
I can’t see which post you’re replying to. These thread lines are an optical illusion.
Antifa’s method of activism is controversial
While there is nothing controversial about being anti-racist, Antifa is not simply anti-racist. It’s the style of activism that’s controversial. From wikipedia:
Petitioning for policy reform is relatively non-controversial. But that’s not Antifa. Obviously some of the more extreme actions (e.g. violence and property destruction) are controversial - and Antifa is open to them.
Antifa’s ideology is controversial
Components of Antifa ideology:
I can’t even get my head around how it’s possible to be both anti-capitalist and anarchist at the same time. Anarchy is also favored by the extreme right, and obviously anarchy is a recipe for pure uncontrolled capitalism – most oppressive form of capitalism. What am I missing?
Lemmy censorship
In the case of lemmy.ml leadership, what we see is extreme censorship. We’re not just talking censorship of trashy messages. I recently posted a thread on the status of the cock.li email servers, and it was censored because the word “cock” appeared in the domain name. (proof). Obviously it’s essential to mention the domain name of the service we’re talking about.
No one will care if racist msgs get censored, but any post that’s incompatible with an anti-capitalist or anti-government viewpoint is also likely to be censored when you see how fast and loose they are with the censor trigger.
So am I racist because I’m not an antifa nor a fascist? Do I need to be an antifa to be anti-racist?
Fascism and racism have a large overlap, because they both target the same minorities. So yes, I think anti-racism needs to include anti-fascism.
So that makes me a half racist, good to know
It’s not a group you sign up for. If you’re not a racist, then yes, your most natural stance is being against fascism: antifa.
You might want to look up the history of the free software movement
The right amount of politics for us, but feel free to go back to Reddit.
This kind of stuff is why some people left reddit.
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I never said or implied that. This trend of assuming anyone who disagrees with you is ‘far right’ or ‘alt-right’ helps nothing. Also curious is how all of my comments in this thread suddenly have 1 more downvote than a few hours ago before you replied. Probably just chance.
That aside, I actually agree with the views here, I just don’t like being beaten over the head with it platform-wide.
deleted by creator
Well again, I never said anti-facist was too radical for me. With all due respect, I think you’re a little too quick to label people ‘far right’. I agree with your sentiment, I agree and absolutely would consider myself and any sane person antifa; my only disagreement is with how hard political views are pushed here. I want lemmy to succeed and I know that even if they agree with the views presented here, pontential users could be turned off by how zealous it comes off sometimes.
Not just a lot of politics, but a lot of censorship from sympathizers of communism / socialism or movements like antifa.