• Wolf_359@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Depends. He seems pretty out of it right now and I don’t know how much he would really accomplish. He’s also pretty old and unhealthy.

    But if he comes back angry and the people around him are effective, then yeah we would start looking for other places to live. I’m not trying to live in a Russian-style handmaid’s tale.

    I don’t think it’s dramatic to suggest Trump may actually put an end to our democracy though. Another Lemmy commenter summed it up best. They pointed out that we on the left may have disagreed with McCain or Bush, but we never once feared that they would seize power or leave NATO. We trusted them to at least keep the ship afloat and respect the basic tenants of our free and democratic nation.

    With Trump, we don’t have that. All bets are off because he’s an unhinged narcissist. He would leave NATO and risk the Pax Americana that has stabilized the world for almost 100 years now. And he would do it for money, for negative attention, or just because someone told him he couldn’t. America has some pretty major faults but China and Russia are not ready to take the reigns. Say what you will about the West but we at least endeavor to protect human rights. I think anyone who isn’t trying to build on the current Western peace is incredibly dangerous in a very scary way.

    • shikitohno@kbin.social
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      9 months ago

      He would leave NATO and risk the Pax Americana that has stabilized the world for almost 100 years now.

      Stabilizing the world is just flat out wrong. At best, the US has stabilized itself and a select few allies. Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan most recently, along with a whole bunch of countries in Central and South America over the last 100 years would probably feel quite strongly that the US has been a disruptive force for them.

      • Wahots@pawb.social
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        9 months ago

        I’m sure the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires would agree with you, haha.

    • voidMainVoid@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      They pointed out that we on the left may have disagreed with McCain or Bush, but we never once feared that they would seize power or leave NATO.

      They were saying all of the same things about W. Bush in 2004.

      We trusted them to at least keep the ship afloat and respect the basic tenants of our free and democratic nation.

      Not at all. The left viewed W. Bush as a wannabe dictator, not much different from how Trump is viewed now.

      • sfcl33t@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        I did not view Bush at all like Trump. Really disliked his political takes on most things and thought he was embarrassingly dumb some times but it never ever even crossed my mind that he was a threat to the republic. And actually admired his composure and leadership after 9/11. They’re not even remotely comparable.

    • yesdogishere@kbin.social
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      9 months ago

      how about the opposite view: trump supporters feel Trump will be good. He will allow the USA to become much more independent and cut off paying for other nations’ wars. why should we pay for them? there is no need for america to be the guardian of democracy or anything. We just want to live god-fearing lives and raise good families. We don’t need the rest of the world. Our military can stomp out any invaders.

      • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        He will allow the USA to become much more independent and cut off paying for other nations’ wars. He will allow the USA to become much more independent and cut off paying for other nations’ wars.

        Kowtowing to countries like China and Russia, allowing them to win strategic victories, will make them more powerful and give them more influence on US politics. Ie. the US would become less independent.

        You don’t become more independent by telling countries like China that you give up.

        In the case of Ukraine, they’re one of the world’s top exporters of grain, which is in part why food prices have been rising globally.

        We don’t need the rest of the world.

        You do. The world has globalised. At least 40 million American jobs are directly reliant on exports. The rest of the world also produces stuff like oil. Fuel prices would skyrocket.

        A lot of unprofitable stuff has also been moved overseas. It would cost money to make it in the US. Many resources are also rare in the US. Stuff like rare-earth elements. Good luck importing from countries which have signed deals with China, because they’re the new super power. Combined with de-dollarisation this would also cause massive issues, rampant inflation for example. You think it’s bad now? You ain’t seen nothing yet.

        Our military can stomp out any invaders.

        No one needs to invade the US. It’s cheaper to simply buy a candidate or blackmail him. This allows countries like China to push through legislation which favours their business and strategic interests. Eg. dropping support for Ukraine or dropping support of Taiwan so that China can take control of advance chip industries.

        In the long term, the US would find it hard to sustain a huge military budget when facing economic turmoil and a debt crisis. Especially in relative terms. China has a population of 1.4 billion. If the US withdraws from the Asia-Pacific and Europe, they’re likely to become part of the Chinese sphere of influence. A country of 300 million, will inevitably be pushed around by a power bloc of 3 billion.

        Of course, none of this will convince a Trump supporter, because most base their support on emotions not reason. And once they find they can’t afford to fill up on gas, or groceries, they’ll blame anyone but themselves.

        • mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          Many resources are also rare in the US. Stuff like rare-earth elements.

          This is actually incorrect. Rare-earth elements aren’t that rare, they’re just difficult to extract and the processes are worse on the environment than most types of mining

      • Wodge@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Well how about doing anything remotely Godly? I mean seriously, the stuff ol Jesus H Christ tried teaching y’all seems to have been completely missed. You lot would call him “Woke”.

        I’m glad you stick to the “I’m a Christian” lark, as if there is a hell, you’ll be more than likely heading there.

      • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        We just want to live god-fearing lives and raise good families.

        And the main difference between us is that I don’t really care if you do that, while your friends will label my future family with two dads as a gross perversion that calls for state intervention in order to prevent the terrible abuse of a child having two loving parents that happen to both be men, as if it’s not abusive to raise a child under the terror of thinking that they’re always being watched and will be tortured for all eternity if they wind up being attracted to the same gender. But ultimately, that’s your life and I’ll leave you to it. I’d just ask for the same courtesy.

        • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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          9 months ago

          Well said. Personally I lost respect at “god-fearing.” What a silly notion. To feel the need to express it to strangers is also silly. Don’t talk about your religion unless I ask. We’re all the same until you make us different. And all the other beliefs were pretty unpleasant, so we’d still be different. Oh well.

      • Skybreaker@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        It’s ironic that people who want to live “God-fearing lives” are basically choosing to worship the antichrist. Because that’s what Trump is. You know people by their actions, not whatever bull crap they spout to get reelected.

      • ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Our military can stomp out any invaders.

        Not when you’re busy inviting them in the front door, fool.

        What do you think the letters “NATO” stand for, anyway?

      • Wolf_359@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        As another commenter rightfully pointed out - you don’t get to be independent and isolationist at the same time.

        Indigenous island tribes may have had this luxury for a time, but once your nation is known by another nation, it’s compete or die.

        China and various other countries would immediately start filling the power vacuum. Your standard of living would drop immensely and your grandchildren would be consuming Chinese culture within a decade or two at most. The American dollar, America’s total dominance in science/culture/medicine, the spread of the English language - these could all be wiped out fairly quickly if America just threw up its hands and said we were done.

        What you’re suggesting would be like Apple saying they’re going to take it easy and just stick with the iPhone 15 for good. The result would be an immediate power grab and some other company would pull ahead, leaving Apple so far behind they’d never catch up again.