• books@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    His wife was involved in Jan 6th.

    If he doesn’t, democracy is dead. Even if he votes against trump. Legitimacy is gone.

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        This is how our constitution works tho. He’s talking about the institutions that make up our specific democracy

        • Nudding@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Call it what you will, just don’t call it democracy when the will of the minority is exerted on the majority.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            My dude the USA is a representative democracy.

            That’s the way that kind of government sometimes functions, which is why we need strong institutions.

            • MUHn4d0@feddit.de
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              11 months ago

              It is not representative tho. I learned in school that a principle of democracy is the equal vote. Each vote counts the same. In the USA each vote counts for a random amount and the people actually electing the president are not even bound to the election results. With the supreme court being this openly corrupt the path to a dictatorship is not that far off.

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                I learned in school that a principle of democracy is the equal vote.

                In a direct democracy, this is true. In a representative democracy, this is not.

                In the USA each vote counts for a random amount

                It isn’t random, and the amount is absolutely gamed in favor of a certain party, which is, again, why we need strong institutions.

                • Tavarin@lemmy.ca
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                  11 months ago

                  The president isn’t voted on as part of the representatives, the office of the president is a separate vote and is supposed to be a direct vote. But the number of electors for each state has not kept up with each state’s population, which has fucked up the power of presidential votes.

        • Nudding@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Americans all like, we brought democracy to the developing world! Y’all don’t have democracy at home, chill.

      • EatATaco@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        Democracy just means that the power ultimately rests in the hands of the people. The fact that we vote for our representatives, meaning it’s ultimately up to us, makes us a democracy. The electoral system is not contradictory to a democracy.

            • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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              11 months ago

              FPTP voting allows a candidate who is highly unpopular by any measure to win over a more popular candidate. Single-member districts allow a party to win a fraction of seats in a legislature that is vastly greater than the fraction of the population who voted for them. Bullshit like the Electoral College just straight up counts some votes more than others.

              That’s just the stuff that’s above board. With gerrymandering, voter suppression, and just plain rigging the vote, anything is possible.

              • EatATaco@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                The fact that there are flaws in our democracy does not make it not a democracy.

                There are essentially only 4 forms of government, based on the ultimate source of power:

                1. Autocracy - an individual
                2. Oligarchy - a few
                3. Democracy - the people
                4. Anarchy - no one

                Even in the case where there are flaws, ultimately the power resides in the people. If we all banded together and voted for someone who would get rid of gerrymandering and the FPTP voting system, and all that BS, we could make it happen. Which means we are still a democracy.

                • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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                  11 months ago

                  At some point a democracy is so flawed it stops being a democracy in any meaningful sense. The stuff I mentioned exists on a spectrum that includes “democracy” in Russia. They have votes but nobody thinks they have democracy. Hence my original comment.

                  If you define democracy as a state where people can change things if they all band together, then every country in history has been a democracy because people have always had the theoretical option to band together and overthrow their government by force.

                  • EatATaco@lemm.ee
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                    11 months ago

                    At some point a democracy is so flawed it stops being a democracy in any meaningful sense. The stuff I mentioned exists on a spectrum that includes “democracy” in Russia.

                    I ultimately agree. It’s not some black or white thing. And Russia is clearly not a democracy, but an autocracy. Some countries have better and stronger democracy than others. The US actually has a pretty strong democracy index, at the high end of “flawed democracy.” We clearly have shit we need to improve, but still a democracy. And the fact that we have an electoral system to elect the POTUS is not one of the reasons ours is flawed.

                    If you define democracy as a state where people can change things if they all band together, then every country in history has been a democracy because people have always had the theoretical option to band together and overthrow their government by force.

                    If we are being unnecessarily pedantic, I didn’t say this. I said it’s a government.