Obviously libs hate Hamas cuz they are fighting against colonialism and thats fucked and we should point out how fucked that is, but Hamas kinda sucks they are collaborators in the genocide and they helped to kill off better opposition. Theres a reason isntreal chose them and not any of the other resistance organizations to support and legitimatize.
It would definitely be better if the liberation fighters we secular leftists, and Israel knew what it was doing when it tried to stop that. However, what the fuck do you mean “they are collaborators in genocide?” Hamas is the main force fighting against genocide with a united front front with secular forces like the PFLP.
You’re getting downvotes but you’re right. The Israeli government funded religious extremism in Gaza to undermine the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat. Those extremists later became Hamas.
I’m for secular resistance but my understanding is that the Fatah party largely got co-opted by “Israel.” The Palestinian Authority has largely played a reactionary role in the recent flare up, for example in confiscating people’s guns so they don’t join the fighting.
"Barakat also responded to the narrative coming from certain quarters, especially from Western liberals, that Hamas was originally created by Israel to divide the Palestinian movement and to weaken the PLO. “Israel did not create Hamas. Hamas was founded on December 9, 1987, in the First Intifada,” he stated. “Since then, Israel has been targeting Hamas, killing its leaders, assassinating their commanders, killing and imprisoning their members… If Israel created Hamas, then why don’t we have not even one document that shows this?”
He explained that Hamas originated from the Muslim Brotherhood movement which was established in 1928, 20 years before Israel was established. Israel did try to create a religious movement to replace the PLO but failed in the attempt.
“Today the PLO and the Palestinian Authority leadership are traitors and tools in the hands of Israel,” he continued. “And Hamas is leading the Palestinian resistance, but not just the armed resistance. If you look at elections, let’s say the student movement elections or labor elections or any kind of really popular assembly elections, Hamas will win with majority. Palestinian people are voting for Hamas in the most prestigious Palestinian liberal universities, like Birzeit University, Hamas will win student council elections. Even in Christian universities, Hamas will win by Christian votes. Does that mean that the Palestinian people don’t understand Hamas? And these Western liberals understand the situation more than we do?… I do not think it is naive or ignorant when they repeat this, it is a calculated distortion. The idea behind these allegations is to say that Palestinians are not capable of creating their movement, someone else must have done this for them.”
Barakat emphasized that Hamas is a national liberation movement of the Palestinian people. He recalled that Western media never mentions that Hamas was actually elected by Palestinians. “They say things like Hamas controls Gaza or Hamas did a coup, as if an elected government is going to do a coup against itself,” he said. “It’s just garbage that Western media put out to mislead people.”
When consulted about the rejection expressed by some sections of the Western left towards anti-imperialist movements that have a religious base, such as Hamas, Barakat called it “an extension of a colonialist mindset.” “They want a Palestinian resistance that fits their image and their criteria, and not how reality is and how Palestinians are,” he said. He added that the same sectors used to criticize the Marxist-Leninist PFLP when it lead the armed struggle during the 1960s-70s, calling the organization “too extreme.”
In this regard, he traced the history of the origin of Islamist anti-imperialist trends in the region. “In the 50s our people were shouting slogans for socialism,” he commented. “They supported Nasser in Egypt… And there were no religious groups anywhere in the movement carrying out any kind of national liberation tasks. Being affected by the situation worldwide—Vietnam, Cuba, Algeria, national liberation movements across Asia and Africa, Palestinians founded the PFLP, the DFLP, and other progressive forces. But that changed. And the reason that things change is not because people are wrong, but because these political parties or these political entities haven’t delivered what they were supposed to deliver. Whether it’s Gamal Abdel Nasser and the Arab national movements that were defeated in 1967, or whether the socialist organizations and political parties retreated in 1990 with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the socialist bloc.”
“The popular classes and the working classes are not going to rest until the left rebuilds itself,” Barakat stressed. “They’re going to support the forces that are still fighting. And when there is a vacuum, someone needs to fulfill the vacuum. In that atmosphere, with the 1979 Great Revolution of Iran, a new era began in the region,” and religious movements took up the task of the Palestinian resistance.
He called out the inherent Islamophobia in the “anyone but Hamas” view, and stated, “We are part of the discourse of Liberation Theology. It’s not just churches, mosques can be revolutionary too… If a mosque is calling for the liberation of Palestine and for equality and for supporting the marginalized and the workers, then this mosque is playing a good role, a positive role. But if a mosque is calling for supporting the Saudi prince and extend the life of bin-Salman of Saudi Arabia, that’s a reactionary mosque and a reactionary imam. The way we look at churches, we should look at mosques with the same objectivity and the same way.”
“Those who want to see the left rising and having military capabilities, they should go and support the left instead of saying they don’t like Hamas,” he advised. “It’s just a very bad position and not one Palestinian would respect that position, including any revolutionary leftist.”"
The funding of extremists happened in the early 1980s, the articles you linked are largely discussing the fallout after the fact. The PLO and Fatah of the 80s were much different organizations from what existed in the late '00 early '10s.
I understand that. I said they got co-opted, not that they were always bad. The implication of the comment you were agreeing with is the Hamas is trash and we should support the Palestinian Authority is the most legitimate force for Palestine.
The implication of the comment you were agreeing with is the Hamas is trash and we should support the Palestinian Authority is the most legitimate force for Palestine.
That’s a huge jump from what they said in the comment I replied too.
that is not what i said and that is not what i meant, i think Hamas is the only option for Palestinian liberation but i dont think we should be upholding them as any kind of a gold standard which seems to be a thing thats happening around here lately, my point was that we should have a more measured take on Hamas as an organization, maybe i didnt use the best words (tho i still think i did).
thanks, it was a good read, maybe i was wrong about Hamas. Tho i found the argument that a mosque can be just as revolutionary as a church humorous because a church cant be revolutionary.
Obviously libs hate Hamas cuz they are fighting against colonialism and thats fucked and we should point out how fucked that is, but Hamas kinda sucks they are collaborators in the genocide and they helped to kill off better opposition. Theres a reason isntreal chose them and not any of the other resistance organizations to support and legitimatize.
It would definitely be better if the liberation fighters we secular leftists, and Israel knew what it was doing when it tried to stop that. However, what the fuck do you mean “they are collaborators in genocide?” Hamas is the main force fighting against genocide with a united front front with secular forces like the PFLP.
You’re getting downvotes but you’re right. The Israeli government funded religious extremism in Gaza to undermine the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat. Those extremists later became Hamas.
I’m for secular resistance but my understanding is that the Fatah party largely got co-opted by “Israel.” The Palestinian Authority has largely played a reactionary role in the recent flare up, for example in confiscating people’s guns so they don’t join the fighting.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201019204707/https://kanaanonline.org/en/2012/03/14/the-palestinian-authority-is-a-donation-and-giant-ngo/
https://web.archive.org/web/20210507184405/https://kanaanonline.org/en/2015/03/08/syrian-regime-more-palestinian-than-plo/
Khaled Barakat discussed this at length. I’m glad to see you kept the sources I recc’d earlier 🙏
"Barakat also responded to the narrative coming from certain quarters, especially from Western liberals, that Hamas was originally created by Israel to divide the Palestinian movement and to weaken the PLO. “Israel did not create Hamas. Hamas was founded on December 9, 1987, in the First Intifada,” he stated. “Since then, Israel has been targeting Hamas, killing its leaders, assassinating their commanders, killing and imprisoning their members… If Israel created Hamas, then why don’t we have not even one document that shows this?”
He explained that Hamas originated from the Muslim Brotherhood movement which was established in 1928, 20 years before Israel was established. Israel did try to create a religious movement to replace the PLO but failed in the attempt.
“Today the PLO and the Palestinian Authority leadership are traitors and tools in the hands of Israel,” he continued. “And Hamas is leading the Palestinian resistance, but not just the armed resistance. If you look at elections, let’s say the student movement elections or labor elections or any kind of really popular assembly elections, Hamas will win with majority. Palestinian people are voting for Hamas in the most prestigious Palestinian liberal universities, like Birzeit University, Hamas will win student council elections. Even in Christian universities, Hamas will win by Christian votes. Does that mean that the Palestinian people don’t understand Hamas? And these Western liberals understand the situation more than we do?… I do not think it is naive or ignorant when they repeat this, it is a calculated distortion. The idea behind these allegations is to say that Palestinians are not capable of creating their movement, someone else must have done this for them.”
Barakat emphasized that Hamas is a national liberation movement of the Palestinian people. He recalled that Western media never mentions that Hamas was actually elected by Palestinians. “They say things like Hamas controls Gaza or Hamas did a coup, as if an elected government is going to do a coup against itself,” he said. “It’s just garbage that Western media put out to mislead people.”
When consulted about the rejection expressed by some sections of the Western left towards anti-imperialist movements that have a religious base, such as Hamas, Barakat called it “an extension of a colonialist mindset.” “They want a Palestinian resistance that fits their image and their criteria, and not how reality is and how Palestinians are,” he said. He added that the same sectors used to criticize the Marxist-Leninist PFLP when it lead the armed struggle during the 1960s-70s, calling the organization “too extreme.”
In this regard, he traced the history of the origin of Islamist anti-imperialist trends in the region. “In the 50s our people were shouting slogans for socialism,” he commented. “They supported Nasser in Egypt… And there were no religious groups anywhere in the movement carrying out any kind of national liberation tasks. Being affected by the situation worldwide—Vietnam, Cuba, Algeria, national liberation movements across Asia and Africa, Palestinians founded the PFLP, the DFLP, and other progressive forces. But that changed. And the reason that things change is not because people are wrong, but because these political parties or these political entities haven’t delivered what they were supposed to deliver. Whether it’s Gamal Abdel Nasser and the Arab national movements that were defeated in 1967, or whether the socialist organizations and political parties retreated in 1990 with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the socialist bloc.”
“The popular classes and the working classes are not going to rest until the left rebuilds itself,” Barakat stressed. “They’re going to support the forces that are still fighting. And when there is a vacuum, someone needs to fulfill the vacuum. In that atmosphere, with the 1979 Great Revolution of Iran, a new era began in the region,” and religious movements took up the task of the Palestinian resistance.
He called out the inherent Islamophobia in the “anyone but Hamas” view, and stated, “We are part of the discourse of Liberation Theology. It’s not just churches, mosques can be revolutionary too… If a mosque is calling for the liberation of Palestine and for equality and for supporting the marginalized and the workers, then this mosque is playing a good role, a positive role. But if a mosque is calling for supporting the Saudi prince and extend the life of bin-Salman of Saudi Arabia, that’s a reactionary mosque and a reactionary imam. The way we look at churches, we should look at mosques with the same objectivity and the same way.”
“Those who want to see the left rising and having military capabilities, they should go and support the left instead of saying they don’t like Hamas,” he advised. “It’s just a very bad position and not one Palestinian would respect that position, including any revolutionary leftist.”"
The funding of extremists happened in the early 1980s, the articles you linked are largely discussing the fallout after the fact. The PLO and Fatah of the 80s were much different organizations from what existed in the late '00 early '10s.
I understand that. I said they got co-opted, not that they were always bad. The implication of the comment you were agreeing with is the Hamas is trash and we should support the Palestinian Authority is the most legitimate force for Palestine.
That’s a huge jump from what they said in the comment I replied too.
Maybe it’s a bit of a stretch, but it still is definitely condemning Hamas. Our support is always critical, but Hamas definitely deserves our support.
that is not what i said and that is not what i meant, i think Hamas is the only option for Palestinian liberation but i dont think we should be upholding them as any kind of a gold standard which seems to be a thing thats happening around here lately, my point was that we should have a more measured take on Hamas as an organization, maybe i didnt use the best words (tho i still think i did).
Read
https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/3127623
thanks, it was a good read, maybe i was wrong about Hamas. Tho i found the argument that a mosque can be just as revolutionary as a church humorous because a church cant be revolutionary.
The Sandanistas and millions of Nicaraguans would disagree. Part of Nicaraguan revolutionary legacy is Liberation Theology.