Because the ‘numbers’ that neoliberals have decided are the indicators of a “good” economy mean almost nothing to, in all likely hood, 95% of Americans.
Measuring the right thing leads to inconvenient conclusions (age till retirement, income at retirement, income independence, buying power, home ownership, business ownership, union membership, etc.)
Bloody well hate the neoliberals. One was arguing with me on reddit that because people in Kenya are better off, compared to the 80s, I should stop complaining.
Like ok I am happy for the people of Kenya. I got nothing against them. So yeah good job. Now can my healthcare costs please go down? Because I am pretty confident that they can and the people of Kenya can also be doing well. One really doesn’t impact the other that much.
No, you see, because TVs have gotten consistently cheaper (they’re like the only thing to have done so), everything’s working!
And the main reason they’re cheaper is because all of them are data harvesting machines. What a fun world where even your habits are a commodity!
Like they even give a shit about Kenya. Just blatant manipulation.
I love that they chose a term to further muddy the waters between conservatives and liberals.
I hear neoliberal and I think, “huh, is the a new liberal?” Nope. It’s the exact fucking opposite.
Fuck neoliberalism. Glad I found out what it was. It really highlights everything that is wrong with the American economy.
… because my purchasing power is much lower than two years ago and my wages aren’t remotely keeping up with profiteering inflation? Because I have to be very careful around Christmas to not overspend and I get to explain to the kids why there’s only a few presents under the tree? They’ll be okay with it, but as a person who has children to take care of it, it’s crushing to go backwards year to year in what you’re able to provide? Because a 3/4 full shopping cart today (not much meat) was $179 today? And we have a fixed rate mortgage! I can’t envision the pressures people who are renting or trying to buy a home right now are going through. Anyone saying “it’s all good out there!” can get fucked.
No kids to take care of, but my fridge just went out today. This spoiled most of the food in the fridge as I can’t pick up a new one until tomorrow, and the of a new fridge and restocking my fridge pretty much cancels Xmas gifts for the family. I feel bad every year because they get my wife and I all kinds of cool stuff and it seems like every year I’m stuck telling them, “Maybe I’ll be less broke next year” Not quite the same, I know, but it still makes me feel aweful…
Meanwhile the owner of my company just bought a 5th wheel camper trailer and hitch for his truck in June because he felt like going camping, and is having a 6 bedroom house built for his son on his ranch because his sons wife is having a baby.
This world is fucked for the working class truly.
This isn’t probably what you want to hear right now, but I’ve been much happier giving homemade gifts to family and friends. I found a couple of things people really enjoy that I make and they all look forward to it every year. For me, it’s pork jerky. That might not work for you because you need a dehydrator but I can post the recipe if you want. It’s a lot of work so no one ever makes it, but when they receive it for Christmas they know I put a lot of time and love in and I really think that’s what Christmas should be about. It’s really cheap… Mostly two or three large pork loins covers my entire Christmas list.
Other family members have started to do the same. My brother makes really good homemade caramel popcorn. My sister made some rum infusion to give out. Another sister even one time even made Dominoes somehow with resin.
If you are able to find time and energy to spread your love for your family and friends Christmas is a lot of fun.
This is a great idea! But I will have to go with something other than meat. A fair amount of my wife’s side of the family is vegetarian. I’m also not that great at cooking lol one of my thoughts this year was to do some of my stencil spraypaints on canvas, as I have a huge stock of canvases and spray paint I never used when I stopped doing it years ago. I just wish I had more time to create some stencils.
If it isn’t too late. Buy an absolute fuck ton of ice. It’ll keep the food cold enough.
Dang, I was just thinking about how my mom got a raise years ago when I was still a kid and it practically changed our life. All of a sudden we were eating out more. All of a sudden we had nicer things. All of a sudden my mom wasn’t stressed anymore.
It’s sad to see how people are now experiencing the opposite of that. It’s sad they’re experiencing that when, in absolute terms, we are more productive than ever.
Greed really is the worst thing we face as a species in the modern age. It’s a shame so many people are gung-ho about supporting it.
The disparity in wealth needs to shrink instead of grow. Otherwise, these problems will only get worse over time.
Corporate profits ≠ my wallet
Corporate profits <- your wallet
Because it’s a bullshit narrative. Cost of living keeps going up. But inflation doesn’t count rent, groceries, or gas.
For what it’s worth gas has come down quite a bit the last few weeks.
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Rent is going to go up as long as it’s able.
As soon as people have more money to spend, landlords increase rent.
Renting is one of the biggest scams this generation has convinced itself into falling for.
I wasn’t able to afford to buy a house until I was over 50 years old, it took a global pandemic, a complete shutdown of the economy, and working from home for multiple years to bank the cash to make it happen.
People don’t rent because they CHOOSE to.
How much was your house?
lol yeah dude, I convinced myself to rent
I mean, you live in a major city so yeah.
You’re probably never going to leave major cities, nor are you ever going to own property in them.
Yeah. You convinced yourself to rent.
I live in rural Iowa wtf are you talking about? We rent out here too!
I actually am paying off my trailer, though, so someday I could maybe put this on a piece of rural property somewhere and do remote work or something? But like, I never chose this shit - I just stayed where I grew up and got a factory job when my neurosis and undiagnosed dysphoria caused me to flunk out of college. I guess I could go squat in the woods though lol
Its pretty insane we don’t invest in our cities anymore when they’re the powerhouse of the economy. Not to mention they’re a way better use of land than suburbs and rural living. You can find affordable places in Tokyo and so many other cities worldwide that dwarf ours in almost every metric. Cities really aren’t the problem, they are actually the potential solution if we change our policies around them and attempt to catch up with countries like Japan.
This generation? Fucking Romans were complaining about high rent for shitty apartments over 2000 years ago. Don’t be a dumbass.
Right… and no generation since has ever seen the value of owning property, right? Lol.
Mark Twain was right. It’s easier to fool someone than to convince them they’d been fooled.
See how mad people get in this comment section when someone points out they’re being taken for a ride? One person even said they won’t get off the ride if it isn’t “easy.” Lol.
Supply and demand. You’re not exempt from them.
Right… and no generation since has ever seen the value of owning property, right? Lol.
Are you under the impression that modern renters are choosing to rent instead of own?
60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck making saving for a down payment impossible for over half the country, and with rates being what they are, mortgages are expensive af.
People are renting because it’s the only way to live, not because they think it’s neat. People are getting upset at you not because you’re pointing out that rent is a scam, but because you’re implying it’s the fault of the victims
Quoting someone much smarter than you doesn’t enhance your unintelligible argument. It makes it dramatically worse.
slaps forehead wait I can just buy a house? What a solution!! So easy!
You are being sarcastic but a lot of people who are convinced they can’t afford it actually could afford to own the place they rent and have just never crunched the numbers.
Before the rate hike this was probably true, but most areas haven’t adjusted to people having about 100k less buying power.
I never said it would be easy.
Do you only do things if they are easy?
I make about $75k a year, but to afford a $700k house (which is a “reasonable” price) near my city (Seattle), I’d have to make $150k per year. The only affordable houses are two hours’ drive away, and there are no “starter” homes to buy. I can skrimp and save for the rest of my life (and I am). But unless I get a huge raise (and I’m already above the median national income), buying a house is impossible. Not just hard, economically impossible.
Have you tried just making more money?
Jeez, you poors are just so lazy.
(I really wish this weren’t needed, but I think it is) \s
I’m also in Seattle and it’s bad out here. I was looking at townhouses last year before the rates went up but couldn’t get a mortgage because of a limited amount of work experience since getting my second degree during the pandemic. I was actually surprised that I could have afforded a decent townhouse in like Edmonds or Shoreline until the rates shot up - going from 3.5% to 7% adds something like $1000 a month in interest on a $400k mortgage. Then I realized I have never lived alone before and wasn’t sure if buying a place was the best way to try that out lol. Average rent in Seattle right now though is like $2300-$2400 a month which is close to 50% of the take-home income of someone making $100,000 per year. It’s insane.
Hold on everyone, this 17 year old is gonna explain why we’re all idiots
Because interest rates are insane trapping people in homes they no longer want but can’t afford to leave?
Speaking of… My car got totalled at the end of October, shopping for a new one, I saw interest rates for me between 7 and 8%, for other folks, I saw one as high as 12.25%(!) On a CAR LOAN.
Because interest rates are insane trapping people in homes they no longer want but can’t afford to leave?
I’m in this comment and I don’t like it.
Interest rates should never have been that low to begin with. It was basically free money for the wealthy, and it’s how housing became such an investment for big businesses. The rates we have now are still at historic lows, they just feel high compared to the bonkers low rates of the last couple decades. I understand the frustration 100%, but lowering the rates again is NOT the answer at all.
For Christmas dinner I vote we just eat the fucking rich
I agree, but we gotta be more thoughtful about it.
I recently had a crazy interaction where I was apparently “The Rich” that needs eaten because I landed a job with a good salary.
Working people aren’t the enemy, needs to be made clear as well. Hell, even corporate headwigs raking in a few million aren’t even close to your enemy in this regard either.
Sounds like jealousy honestly. I’ve had a couple conversations here in the past that because I went out and started my own electrical contracting business instead of working for someone that all of a sudden in the bourgeoise. Like, dude, why in the hell would I keep myself in a position of struggling when I have the skillset and knowledge to make a lot more money, though I’m in a small tourist town so it’s not like I have a bunch of commercial contracts. I have one employee, who makes damn good money for an apprentice. I don’t have health insurance because I can’t fucking afford it without being back in the poor house. I ain’t affording a house anytime soon, and my rent is $2k/month. Most of my gains for this year are going to be diminished because I have to buy a new truck to replace my old car with almost 200k miles on it, and interest rates are fucked. And then taxes take the rest because this country hates people striking out on their own. I make just enough to be slightly ahead of myself year over year, but my wife and I aren’t on a beach in Bora Bora eating bons bons.
Point is, people are angry, and I get it, I’m pretty irritated too. But don’t let people drag you down for your successes just because they’re subscribing to the crabs in a bucket mentality.
“Why Americans feel gloomy about the economy despite paying a lot more for things than the official inflation numbers claim and having a wage that isn’t rising as high as official numbers claim”
Not to leave out unemployment has run out for thousands, making the numbers look good.
Didn’t the student loan moratorium also end? Something started back, maybe evictions too. None of it is good.
“falling inflation” means prices are still rising…the rate of increase is what has decreased. What we need is negative inflation…or said differently, price decrease.
You don’t actually want that. It encourages people to “invest” by sticking hard cash in a mattress. It rewards people for doing absolutely nothing but taking money out of the economy.
Ideal (if we’re keeping a monetary exchange society, anyway) is low (<3%), predictable inflation combined with wages increasing in proportion to productivity. We had a period of relatively low inflation followed by a giant spike, plus wage gains that are nowhere near matching productivity gains over the last 50 years, and that’s where things hurt. Capitalism doesn’t seem capable of this, however, as it’s always chasing the next hype cycle that leads to these spikes and lulls.
As opposed to what we have going on right now, which is to punish working class people so ruling class people can still have prosperity.
Deflation means stagnation or crash in economic terms
Cool, working class people aren’t really thriving right now anyway. Maybe an economy crash could result in a restructuring of wealth and new tax policy.
Sure. I don’t believe in infinite growth either, I’m unsure however who’d come up on top. The new aristocracy?
And yet it is exactly what the people need to be happy
Meditate on that point
For every economic problem, the burden falls on the working class. Deflation makes people unhappy, high inflation makes people unhappy, and low inflation is the “best” because things get worse more slowly. Capitalism only helps workers when large enough innovations happens. Otherwise, the owners capture all the benefits of growth, or squeeze the workers to make the appearance of it.
People have always been, in the grand sense, pretty dumb.
True
What you are describing is deflation and it’s only happened twice during the history of the United States. It is also generally looked at as a bad thing.
Is inflation generally looked at as a good thing or a bad thing? Ive only ever heard people complain about inflation.
If they are both bad things im willing to give the bad thing that improves my life a try over the bad thing that makes everything more expensive.
Granted i have nothing so im probably on the side of things that is least effected by the bad side of deflation.
If i can spend more money on the things i want to, it will absolutely help small local businesses near me
A small amount of inflation is healthy. You REALLY want to avoid deflation, because that means the value of your money is increasing. If people know their money will be worth more in the future, they won’t spend it, incentivized to save and sit on it. That means on average everyone spends less, slowing the economy down and starting into a recession/depression.
Gonna slap this with the good old “I am not an economist” disclaimer, juat what I remember from economics class in high school
Only problem that right now people also may decide against buying because they can’t afford it. Also, I’m not sure world is producing goods at a healthy rate either, more like we’ve got a bit of an overproduction
Yeah, obviously wages SHOULD be keeping up with inflation and inflation should be a low, stable amount. That’s the problem, not inflation in general.
What you learned in high school puts you miles ahead of 99% of these comments
People still have to spend money, hoarding wealth makes no sense if you can’t eat and pay for services and utilities.
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I have no idea what this is in reference to
Japan has been struggling with deflation (=decrease of prices) for a good 25 years now… you really don’t want that happening. Ideally you want something around 2% inflation.
What are the issues with deflation other than that people wouldn’t want to invest in whatever is available?
You also shouldn’t purchase, since goods will get cheaper over time. Also don’t take loans for the same reasons. Basically you should take your money in cash and sit on it.
That falls apart with necessities like food and medicine, doesn’t it?
Those are considered inelastic goods, yes. They are also way too small an amount to keep an economy going. Most things we spend money on aren’t like that, and demand going down like so will affect markets; companies not producing necessities or for export will fold if it lasts too long, etc.
Deflation is a death spiral. China is going through it rn. The currency gets stronger, but then people wait to buy stuff like houses because it will be cheaper in a few months. It creates a snowball effect as people all start holding off on buying and selling stuff, wanting the best deal possible, or then being unable to buy things if people hold off on selling.
I can’t remember the last time people felt good about the economy.
I can… but I was born in the 70s
I’d say it was pre-2008, but I was born in the 90s.
My son graduated with a degree in economics in 2020 and still hasn’t found a job. He’s not counted in the unemployment numbers because he hasn’t filed for benefits. We need to look at labor participation as well as underemployment instead of the useless stats being used in this article. Real wages have tanked. People are running up debt just to buy groceries. It’s desperate out there.
He’s not counted in the unemployment numbers because he hasn’t filed for benefits.
That’s untrue. From the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics:
In the Current Population Survey, people are classified as unemployed if they meet all of the following criteria:
- They were not employed during the survey reference week.
- They were available for work during the survey reference week, except for temporary illness.
- They made at least one specific, active effort to find a job during the 4-week period ending with the survey reference week (see active job search methods) OR they were temporarily laid off and expecting to be recalled to their job.
There are other statistics measuring unemployment claims, but when you hear, “the unemployment rate for Oct 2023 is 3.9%”, that is unrelated to benefits.
Doesn’t take a genius to figure out that when the economy restabilizes, that doesn’t mean the cost of consumer goods go down or wages go up, it just means the billionaires running the show aren’t losing millions
Someone feel free to explain these two simultaneous headlines-
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Plus people are maxing out debt
Probably this, on the heels of: https://lemmy.world/post/8643298
So spending is probably up, but it’s just deepening the debt hole. We’ll see where the bottom of that is soon enough…
I’d say you’re spot on with this, I’d love to see the stats of spending prior to black Friday… betting it was lower than all last years.
Since I’m just renting, I have more disposable income for luxury shopping.
I know no one with a lower rent than my mortgage. Literally no one.
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I likely do, nice to meet you.
I also don’t pay taxes, maintenance, or homeowners insurance. I only have to pay to insure my things.
You can argue those costs are baked into my $1250 rent, and you’re probably right, but I guarantee it’s less than your mortgage and associated costs would be where I live.
The Black Friday article in the picture basically explains the last part of your comment. Everyone waited for sales all year and spent now
People who feel bad buy things to feel better. They might not be able to afford a new house or a car or medical care, but they’ll spend something on gifts.
Also, maybe it’s members of the owning class buying things. They’re getting more money all the time, whether the economy does “good” or not. So they’ve always got money to blow on shit.
Plus it specifically says online sales. Online sales could be up 7.5%, but brick and mortar store sales could be down 50% for all we know.
You can buy a tv for cheaper than a loaf of bread.
Sure, no problem. Spending rose by 7.5%, inflation until recent months was at 10%. Net real sales is down by 3.5%. People are spending more for less. This is why we are gloomy. Still, I recognize things are getting better on the macro level.
Maybe it’s because everyone is struggling with high costs of housing, food, and healthcare, among other things, while wages have remained flat and stagnant for decades.
I really wish news outlets would stop pretending this is some big mystery. Shit is too expensive.
IMO it’s the inverse, we don’t make enough. The 1% have been keeping wages stagnant. We can’t stop the price of goods from going up, but we can increase pay from it sharing the bottom line. As soon as interest rates re-appeared, all the free money that was sitting around for the taking disappeared. Sooner than later, we’ll be paying micro-transactions for crap that was previously able to be paid for by selling us ads. But that money isn’t coming back to us.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
- Upton Sinclair, 1934
The unemployment is low because people have a gun to their head. Inflation is falling, but it’s not zero, therefore everything is still getting more expensive.
eCoNoMiCs.
