• force@lemmy.world
      412·
      1 year ago

      English phonology, American English dialects’ (and other dialects’) /r/ is usually pronounced retracted, post-alveolar/pre-palatal (usually bunched/molar), transcribed something like [ɹ̠ᶹ], so it causes alveolar consonants in the same cluster to retract/palatalize, usually into a post-alveolar affricate ([d͡ʒ] – the “j” sound for voiced stop /d/, [t͡ʃ] – the “ch” sound for voiceless stop /t/, [ʃ] – the “sh” sound for voiceless fricative /s/). The term would be assimilation (of place of articulation).

      “Dragon” /dræ.gən/ -> [dɹ̠æ.ɡɪ̈n] -> [d̠ʒɹ̠æ.ɡ(ɪ̈)n]

      You can see the same thing with words like “tree” /tri/ -> [t̠ʃɹ̠i] or even “street” /strit/ -> [ʃt̠ɹ̠it]

      Would explain simpler but can’t, break ends now, just know its because consonant pronounced in different place in mouth is conforming to being pronounced in the same place in mouth as other consonant that is right beside it (like with “in-” vs “im-”, “impractical”, which notably isn’t “inpractical”, or “incandescent” which notably isn’t “imcandascent”, or “indecisive” etc. etc.)

        • Stoneykins [any]@mander.xyzEnglish
          184·
          1 year ago

          They made almost no attempt to put it in layman’s terms, which means as an explanation it is not very helpful unless you already know enough about the topic to not need to ask about it in the first place. Correct and unhelpful. But I guess they were busy.

            • ALostInquirer@lemm.ee
              2·
              1 year ago

              What would be a good place to start with IPA? Going off Wikipedia’s pages on the matter is like Force’s comment, well-intentioned but not a great intro as you flit back & forth across the tables making sense of it.

              I also vaguely remember a similar experience with physical dictionaries, which I think tend to have some kind of IPA (or related) pronunciation guide in them. It’s been awhile since I’ve used one though, hence the foggy memory, and some online dictionaries seem to have given up on showing IPA pronunciation guides.

            • Stoneykins [any]@mander.xyzEnglish
              113·
              1 year ago

              I understood it, after I googled a lot of what they said. And I’m not trying to give them shit, they made an effort to be helpful, it just wasn’t really.

                • Stoneykins [any]@mander.xyzEnglish
                  83·
                  1 year ago

                  I mean the quality of an explanation is a matter of opinion. I already admitted it was a technically correct explanation, but I stand by my opinion. You can disagree but have failed to convince me to think otherwise.

      • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
        72·
        1 year ago

        I love seeing linguists on Lemmy. Wish we had a bigger community.

        To put it in layman’s terms just focus on explaining that J is often [d͡ʒ] which already has a D sound in it.

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
        4·
        1 year ago

        Okay, I think I get it. When I say “dr-” the r is made with the tip of my tongue just behind my front teeth, but when I say “jr-” (like in badger), the r is made with the middle of my tounge in the middle of my mouth. Neat!

    • Sagifurius@lemm.ee
      41·
      1 year ago

      I’m thinking it’s a regional thing and this guy is from my general region, it’s totally a thing out here. The letter “T” is really only useful on paper, people use “D” when they speak for the most part for “T” (except for T’s followed by an “h”), and “J” is any “D” when followed by an “r”. Side note, i found it jarring when I was younger and saw a Superman cartoon for the first time, and all the characters were pronouncing “Luthor” as “Luthor”, not “Luther”

      • kase@lemmy.world
        3·
        1 year ago

        Haha same here. And to add onto the Luthor bit, everyone I know pronounces “-or” and “-er” words as “-ir”. Pretty much everybody agrees it sounds stupid, but nobody has the power to stop it.

        • Sagifurius@lemm.ee
          2·
          1 year ago

          I mean, we don’t think it sounds stupid, it’s just normal. I’d not have noticed if i hadn’t spent so long abroad, where people though my accent was peculiar, and later laughed often when they’d hear my voice revert halfway through overheard phone calls home. That and owning a bar in my home region and often listening to the wildly different accents people rolling through. Englishmen berating me for my pronunciation of words like “Wilstshire” and “Cheshire”, “Jaguar”, “Brown Sauce” while they order a Kokanee but pronounce it “Cocainee”

    • otp@sh.itjust.works
      14·
      1 year ago

      I believe it’s called affrication – changing a stop to a fricative.

      T can become “ch”, and d can become a “j” sound.

      This can happen in some North American accents when you have a T or D followed by an r or a y sound.

      Train might sound like Chain, Drain might sound like Jrain.

      My favourite is “Tuesday”, where some people add a y before the “oo” sound, and it becomes “Chewsday”. Or “Chewsdi” if they shorten the “day” to “dee”.

      The “y” before “oo” can also happen in words like news and tube, giving us a potential for “Chyoob” instead of “tube”.

      I’ve found that t to ch before r is more common among Gen X and younger, and Boomers tend to only make the change before y. But Gen X and younger tend to not have the y in words like “tube”, so that comes up less often.

      D to J before r seems to be pretty common in all ages.

      Getting people to hear the difference can be hard, especially if they’re self conscious about it. If you can get someone to say “Dane” and “Drain” (without saying the words yourself), then you can probably hear the difference…as long as they don’t know that you’re listening for a dr => jr sound change. Most people, even those who make tr => chr and dr => jr naturally are still capable of producing pure “tr” and “dr” if they try.

        • otp@sh.itjust.works
          5·
          1 year ago

          I wouldn’t call it grotesque. “t” and “ch” are very similar sounds, phonetically.

          I think we’re all okay with language change, unless you’re pronouncing the k in “knife”, the p in pterodactyl, and the gh in “laugh” glottally instead of like an “f”.

      • PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocksBEnglish
        3·
        1 year ago

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  • Cosmicomical@lemmy.world
    151·
    1 year ago

    English language doesn’t have an alphabet - change my mind (especially british, but american only made one step in the right direction and then stopped)

  • HiramFromTheChi@lemmy.world
    9·
    1 year ago

    In high school, I wrote a play for my creative writing class where the main character named Jrue—named after Jrue Holiday, one of my favorite basketball players.

    I remember the teacher got a kick out of it.

  • dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee
    6·
    1 year ago

    I’m sure the Swedes would find a way yo fuck it up. “Yeah-ragon” or “Ji-ragon” or something.

  • Resol van Lemmy@lemmy.world
    6·
    1 year ago

    I don’t know why I can actually tell the difference phonetically between “dragon” and “jragon”, maybe I just pronounce things weirdly.

    • Marxism-Fennekinism@lemmy.mlEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      lead, led

      don, dawn

      but, butt

      you, yew

      so, sow, sew, soul

      pain, pane, Payne

      John, Jon, Jean, Jaune

      Was only gonna due the first example butt turns out English has a Lotte of these.