I completely understand your reasoning for opposing the meat industry, but I saw one argument that I’m curious what ethical vegans would think about:
What if there is an animal product that has already been harvested, is it unethical to then utilize it? Like, stealing meat(which would actually hurt the meat industry), or being at an event where there are meat dishes that would otherwise go to waste. Those forms of consumption aren’t supporting the slaughter of the animals.
“Utilize” implies that animals are a resource for consumption instead of living things with their own right to live. As another comment pointed out we don’t “utilize” humans after they have been murdered. A goal of veganism is to stop factory farming but it is not what veganism is. If you consider all animals as having a right to life you then wouldn’t consider their bodies as resources after they were murdered but instead as victims.
As another comment pointed out we don’t “utilize” humans after they have been murdered.
Yes we do. Medical cadavers, organ donation, are the two most obvious ways.
If you consider all animals as having a right to life you then wouldn’t consider their bodies as resources after they were murdered but instead as victims.
I care about my own life, but not my lifeless body once I did.
Medical cadavers and organ donors are, first of all, volunteers not raised for that purpose, and second of all, we do not view them as commodities. There are rituals of respect when working with medical cadavers. I have heard of the families of organ donors visiting the recipients in emotional meetings.
If you consider all animals as having a right to life you then wouldn’t consider their bodies as resources after they were murdered but instead as victims.
This is a nonsensical statement that contradicts itself. If all animals have a right to life, then you wouldn’t see any issue with a lion murdering a gazelle and then feasting on the victim’s body. Alternatively, if you condemn carnivorous animals as murderers, you don’t consider carnivores to have a right to life.
Even if we consider this only applies to humans – what about our pets? Cats are obligate carnivores. How can we feed our pet cats without being complicit in murder and feeding our cats the bodies?
There are social and intrapersonal reasons to avoid eating meat even if doing so doesn’t lead directly to more animals being slaughtered. It is still treating the dead bodies of animals as a commodity, something we don’t do to the bodies of dead humans. And it will take a cultural shift in how we see animals in order to end their oppression.
And the issue of eating “wasted” (weird way to talk about it as a vegan) meat is more concrete when you are eating meat at a function or the leftovers of a friend. The next function is going to have just as much meat if not more because it all got eaten. Your friend isn’t going to think about reducing their meat consumption because they were left with too much, they might even get more satisfaction from you eating it because of pity. People who regularly consume animal products often think going without them must be suffering.
I don’t agree with freegans, though I also don’t really care what they do. As long as they understand there is a clear distinction between something like dumpster diving and a potluck.
Because humans are omnivores, “the flesh of others” is quite literally food for us. Wood, the flesh of trees, is food for fungus. Everything eats something, and you’re on one hell of a superiority binge if you think animals are any more deserving of mercy than plants. Plants can perceive (and communicate!) when they experience damage (link). What’s your floor for intelligence before being allowed to eat something?
Just wanted to say that I think lab grown meat is a bit of a white elephant. Dose it scale, what are the inputs, etc…
It might be viable, but it’s hard to believe anything about it with all the grassroots shills online. VC money is all over this. It’s just another product.
The joke is giving the most obvious and least relevant answer to a simple question, brainlet. Life is life, death is death. In order for something to die, it had to have been alive. Everything that has been alive has died or will die, and you accusing people like me of murder pushes them away from your cause.
Stop being so fucking unpleasant and go watch The Good Place, it might give you a few things to think about.
You jump down my ass for making a dry joke, and I’m the feisty one? I’m not “triggered”, I’m “offended by your stupidity”. You’re just as guilty as I am if you’ve ever eaten anything but rocks, and if you weren’t so fucking malnourished you’d have the capacity to understand that.
Now, if you were making a point about the unethical practices in large-scale farm operations, particularly in the US but also in select locations abroad, you’d have a valid point. But you’re not, you just can’t take a joke and you called me a murderer, so you don’t. I do hope that makes sense.
I completely understand your reasoning for opposing the meat industry, but I saw one argument that I’m curious what ethical vegans would think about:
What if there is an animal product that has already been harvested, is it unethical to then utilize it? Like, stealing meat(which would actually hurt the meat industry), or being at an event where there are meat dishes that would otherwise go to waste. Those forms of consumption aren’t supporting the slaughter of the animals.
“Utilize” implies that animals are a resource for consumption instead of living things with their own right to live. As another comment pointed out we don’t “utilize” humans after they have been murdered. A goal of veganism is to stop factory farming but it is not what veganism is. If you consider all animals as having a right to life you then wouldn’t consider their bodies as resources after they were murdered but instead as victims.
Yes we do. Medical cadavers, organ donation, are the two most obvious ways.
I care about my own life, but not my lifeless body once I did.
Medical cadavers and organ donors are, first of all, volunteers not raised for that purpose, and second of all, we do not view them as commodities. There are rituals of respect when working with medical cadavers. I have heard of the families of organ donors visiting the recipients in emotional meetings.
Of course, but in the situation I gave. You aren’t the one doing that.
Yeah if you guys wanna “utilize” my corpse have at it. Being useful after death seems like a win to me.
do all living things have a right to live?
Why would they not?
all is the keyword in that sentence.
Exactly, why do all animals not have an inherent right to live?
I didn’t say “animals”
This is a nonsensical statement that contradicts itself. If all animals have a right to life, then you wouldn’t see any issue with a lion murdering a gazelle and then feasting on the victim’s body. Alternatively, if you condemn carnivorous animals as murderers, you don’t consider carnivores to have a right to life.
Even if we consider this only applies to humans – what about our pets? Cats are obligate carnivores. How can we feed our pet cats without being complicit in murder and feeding our cats the bodies?
Lions have to eat meat to survive, humans don’t. Humans are also moral agents, animals are not.
Should we neuter lions then?
What part of my comment made you think I was arguing for that?
I’m pretty sure there are vegan pet foods with similar nutritional profiles
There are social and intrapersonal reasons to avoid eating meat even if doing so doesn’t lead directly to more animals being slaughtered. It is still treating the dead bodies of animals as a commodity, something we don’t do to the bodies of dead humans. And it will take a cultural shift in how we see animals in order to end their oppression.
And the issue of eating “wasted” (weird way to talk about it as a vegan) meat is more concrete when you are eating meat at a function or the leftovers of a friend. The next function is going to have just as much meat if not more because it all got eaten. Your friend isn’t going to think about reducing their meat consumption because they were left with too much, they might even get more satisfaction from you eating it because of pity. People who regularly consume animal products often think going without them must be suffering.
I don’t agree with freegans, though I also don’t really care what they do. As long as they understand there is a clear distinction between something like dumpster diving and a potluck.
By definition, Vegans would not. People who would typically define themselves as “Freegan”.
Seeing other’s flesh as food is the problem…
Because humans are omnivores, “the flesh of others” is quite literally food for us. Wood, the flesh of trees, is food for fungus. Everything eats something, and you’re on one hell of a superiority binge if you think animals are any more deserving of mercy than plants. Plants can perceive (and communicate!) when they experience damage (link). What’s your floor for intelligence before being allowed to eat something?
It’s quite amazing that you are one of the only people in the thread to acknowledge this. We are part of nature.
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Just wanted to say that I think lab grown meat is a bit of a white elephant. Dose it scale, what are the inputs, etc…
It might be viable, but it’s hard to believe anything about it with all the grassroots shills online. VC money is all over this. It’s just another product.
I’m not sure that’s the solution.
Humans are edible, do you look at other humans and think food?
Why? They’re dead
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Because they were, at one point, alive :P
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The joke is giving the most obvious and least relevant answer to a simple question, brainlet. Life is life, death is death. In order for something to die, it had to have been alive. Everything that has been alive has died or will die, and you accusing people like me of murder pushes them away from your cause.
Stop being so fucking unpleasant and go watch The Good Place, it might give you a few things to think about.
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You jump down my ass for making a dry joke, and I’m the feisty one? I’m not “triggered”, I’m “offended by your stupidity”. You’re just as guilty as I am if you’ve ever eaten anything but rocks, and if you weren’t so fucking malnourished you’d have the capacity to understand that.
Now, if you were making a point about the unethical practices in large-scale farm operations, particularly in the US but also in select locations abroad, you’d have a valid point. But you’re not, you just can’t take a joke and you called me a murderer, so you don’t. I do hope that makes sense.
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they’re not food…