plenty of bad actors doing evil suff today for a big variety of reasons. i think its safe to assume they will be there, even if they are not so numerous?
Without private property, there isn’t much ingentive to be malicious in the first place.
And as I’ve said: a community can defend itself without the need of command and control hierarchy.
Example solutions for the examples given above:
Since these assholes live in a community, diplomacy to sanction those people until they cut that shit out. But he concept of payment isn’t really a thing in a “fully anarchist” society, since those would for example run on gift economies, rendering the concept of payment a bit useless.
Crafting weapons example: Same thing. But if diplomacy doesn’t work, the weapons would have to be taken by force (i.e. by a voluntary, democratically controlled militia).
The food stuff: I’m again asking “why?”. But in general: let’s say that people can’t stop the “evil” people from being a dick by sanctions or force: People just move away. That’s how humanity did it back in hunter-gatherer times. I think it was this video which explained it quite well (but I might confuse it with another one)
What about things like rape or sexist crimes in general? What about crimes motivated by racism, ableism or a clashing of ideologies?
The only thing anarchists have to say about these things are a vague “the communities will handle it themselves” which sounds an awful lot like police again to me.
Just this time the police doesn’t have to follow laws at all and it’s basically my neighbours who will make up their own rules. This is a thought that runs shivers down my spine and not because of happiness.
If you claim that anything that resembles an answer to crimes is a “police”, then you’re talkino about something different than everyone else. The police as it exists today is there to fight class tensions and keep the current order of things.
Do youeknow how many cases of rape cases currently lead to a conviction? Compare that to convictions of people stealing food or not being able to pay their rent.
Crime will always exist. Currently, the way of preventing crime is by individualistic punishment, taking people away from the community they’re in and the fear of the aforementioned. That is not the only way to “fight” crime. Handling crime as an injury of the community and focusing on healing that wound as a community is IMHO a way more effective way that enablino bullies to get a power high.
The police make up the law as they go all the time. Ever heard of “the blue wall of silence”? They cover for each other when someone steps out of line, because to them, group cohesion is more important than playing by the rules.
You seem to not understand what bottom-up decision making is.
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what police does. Neither does it make the laws, nor is it responsible for convicting rapists.
Handling crime as an injury of the community and focusing on healing that wound as a community
Like when people were burning witches? Or what’s happening right now in multiple countries which do not have police where all disputes are “solved” by clan-violence and vigilantes on the streets?
Why do you believe, when your neighbours form their little vigilante groups, that they will help you when someone rapes you? What if the rapist is a friend of them or even someone from that group? What if they believe it’s okay to rape specific people or under specific circumstances?
Why did people burn witches? Maybe because someone in a position of power was in search of a scapegoat to blame because their position was threatened?
where all disputes are “solved” by clan-violence and vigilantes on the streets
Very non-hierarchical structures you’re describing here. /s
Why do you believe, when your neighbours form their little vigilante groups, that they will help you when someone rapes you? What if the rapist is a friend of them or even someone from that group? What if they believe it’s okay to rape specific people or under specific circumstances?
I’m not proposing "neighbors form[ing] little vigilante groups, so… Idk? 🤷
how is such a thing like the aforementioned militias be organized?
assuming my country turns anarchist, how will we defend against imperialist nations? we cant just move a country over because someone else wanted what was in there.
You do realize that you can’t seriosly expect an answer to such a broad question in a lemmy post, when whole books have been written about that topic and there is all but consesus on the specifics of the implementation, right?
First, the whole system is doomed to fail because a small group of “dissidents” could topple it, now The small group of dissidents becomes a whole imperialist nation. I think that’s what you call “moving the goal posts”. I will disengage if you keep showing not one gram of good will.
The militias are organized in a decentralized manner and will be accountable to the community (not a small group of superiors).
assuming my country turns anarchist
That’s a cathegorical error right there. Don’t knoweif you noticed it.
we cant just move a country over because someone else wanted what was in there.
That strategy is one of the strategies to be employed against small groups of tyrants in a nomadic society. Doesn’t apply to all circumstances, but I never claimed it did.
im simply trying to understand how it would work in a broad way, therefore i ask broad questions.
from what the world is telling me right now, aggressors of all sizes and intentions will be the biggest threat to a project like this. i will give the linked material a read, but thats really the main point thats sticking for me about it.
is there definition on how society could be organized on a bigger scale, for bigger projects, like what countries are supposed to do today?
i mean, something like space programs need a huge network of different specialized and unspecialized personnel, equipment and materials to work. or the building of education systems, roads or healthcare across the country.
coordination with other nations for even bigger stuff also comes to mind.
plenty of bad actors doing evil suff today for a big variety of reasons. i think its safe to assume they will be there, even if they are not so numerous?
whats the theory on how to deal with this stuff?
Without private property, there isn’t much ingentive to be malicious in the first place.
And as I’ve said: a community can defend itself without the need of command and control hierarchy.
Example solutions for the examples given above:
Since these assholes live in a community, diplomacy to sanction those people until they cut that shit out. But he concept of payment isn’t really a thing in a “fully anarchist” society, since those would for example run on gift economies, rendering the concept of payment a bit useless.
Crafting weapons example: Same thing. But if diplomacy doesn’t work, the weapons would have to be taken by force (i.e. by a voluntary, democratically controlled militia).
The food stuff: I’m again asking “why?”. But in general: let’s say that people can’t stop the “evil” people from being a dick by sanctions or force: People just move away. That’s how humanity did it back in hunter-gatherer times. I think it was this video which explained it quite well (but I might confuse it with another one)
What about things like rape or sexist crimes in general? What about crimes motivated by racism, ableism or a clashing of ideologies?
The only thing anarchists have to say about these things are a vague “the communities will handle it themselves” which sounds an awful lot like police again to me.
Just this time the police doesn’t have to follow laws at all and it’s basically my neighbours who will make up their own rules. This is a thought that runs shivers down my spine and not because of happiness.
If you claim that anything that resembles an answer to crimes is a “police”, then you’re talkino about something different than everyone else. The police as it exists today is there to fight class tensions and keep the current order of things.
Do youeknow how many cases of rape cases currently lead to a conviction? Compare that to convictions of people stealing food or not being able to pay their rent.
Crime will always exist. Currently, the way of preventing crime is by individualistic punishment, taking people away from the community they’re in and the fear of the aforementioned. That is not the only way to “fight” crime. Handling crime as an injury of the community and focusing on healing that wound as a community is IMHO a way more effective way that enablino bullies to get a power high.
The police make up the law as they go all the time. Ever heard of “the blue wall of silence”? They cover for each other when someone steps out of line, because to them, group cohesion is more important than playing by the rules.
You seem to not understand what bottom-up decision making is.
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what police does. Neither does it make the laws, nor is it responsible for convicting rapists.
Like when people were burning witches? Or what’s happening right now in multiple countries which do not have police where all disputes are “solved” by clan-violence and vigilantes on the streets?
Why do you believe, when your neighbours form their little vigilante groups, that they will help you when someone rapes you? What if the rapist is a friend of them or even someone from that group? What if they believe it’s okay to rape specific people or under specific circumstances?
Why did people burn witches? Maybe because someone in a position of power was in search of a scapegoat to blame because their position was threatened?
Very non-hierarchical structures you’re describing here. /s
I’m not proposing "neighbors form[ing] little vigilante groups, so… Idk? 🤷
Way to miss/derail my point, smartass.
how is such a thing like the aforementioned militias be organized?
assuming my country turns anarchist, how will we defend against imperialist nations? we cant just move a country over because someone else wanted what was in there.
You do realize that you can’t seriosly expect an answer to such a broad question in a lemmy post, when whole books have been written about that topic and there is all but consesus on the specifics of the implementation, right?
First, the whole system is doomed to fail because a small group of “dissidents” could topple it, now The small group of dissidents becomes a whole imperialist nation. I think that’s what you call “moving the goal posts”. I will disengage if you keep showing not one gram of good will.
The militias are organized in a decentralized manner and will be accountable to the community (not a small group of superiors).
That’s a cathegorical error right there. Don’t knoweif you noticed it.
Again: quite a broad question. Allow me to point you to an essay with a proposal, if you’re so inclined.
That strategy is one of the strategies to be employed against small groups of tyrants in a nomadic society. Doesn’t apply to all circumstances, but I never claimed it did.
im simply trying to understand how it would work in a broad way, therefore i ask broad questions.
from what the world is telling me right now, aggressors of all sizes and intentions will be the biggest threat to a project like this. i will give the linked material a read, but thats really the main point thats sticking for me about it.
is there definition on how society could be organized on a bigger scale, for bigger projects, like what countries are supposed to do today?
i mean, something like space programs need a huge network of different specialized and unspecialized personnel, equipment and materials to work. or the building of education systems, roads or healthcare across the country.
coordination with other nations for even bigger stuff also comes to mind.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
I think it was this video which explained it quite well
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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