It was a hypothetical, I was just using myself as an example. Here’s one that’s not hypothetical:
I’m already a practiced in 3D modelling, UV unwrapping, texturing, lightning, rendering, compositing, etc. I could recreate a painting, pixel for pixel, in 3D space.
If I just hit render, is that my art now? It took a lot of research to learn how to do this, I should be able to make money on that effort, right?
I can do that millions of times and get the same result. I can set it on a loop and get as many as I want. It’s the same as copying the first render’s file, it just takes longer.
Now I decide to change the camera angle. Almost the entire image is technically different now, but the composition is the same. The colors, the subjects, relative placement in the scene, all the same, but it’s not really the same image anymore. Is it mine yet?
I can set the camera to a random X,Y,Z position, and have it point at a random object in the scene (so it never points off into blank space). Are those images mine? It’s never the same twice, but it still has the original artist’s style of subjects and lighting. I can even randomize each subjects position, size, hue, direction, add a modifier that distorts them to be wobbly or cubic… I can start generating random objects and throwing them in too, let’s call those “hallucinations”, thats a fun word…
At what specific point in this madness does the imagery go from someone else’s work to mine?
I absolutely can generate millions of unique images all day. Without using machine learning, based on work I recreated with my own human hands, and code I write uniquely from my experience and abilities. None of the work - artistically - is mine. I made no decisions on composition, style, meaning, mood, color theory, etc.
You may want to try to write these questions off, but I can tell you with certainty that other artists won’t.
Your argument is tired. Have you ever simply prompted a generative txt2img and told it to make 100 or even 200 in the batch? You might have 1 or 2 that shine and are interesting without any touch up. But almost every one will require inpainting, photoshop work, or other creative modifications to be worth a damn. And even then some won’t be.
Like I said in my comment. It will be banal without real creativity. It doesn’t even take millions of “paintings” to get there. No one will care about cheaply manufactured junk after the novelty wears off. We will demand more than that.
Ultimately it will be a tool that extends all our creativity. It already is. But if we fear it because of arguments like yours then laws will be made to keep it out of the hands of the common plebe. But it won’t disappear. You can bet your ass it won’t. It will just be used in dark places by powerful people, and not just for banal image prompting. And then you can fear it rightfully.
You’re missing (or ignoring) the point of my argument. A human who learns from other work can only apply that skill in a limited amount. Even if a human learns to copy Van Gogh’s style and continually churns out minor variations of his work, they cannot produce dozens per minute. Let alone learn to do that equally well from several hundreds (thousands?) of other artists. There’s a scale difference in human learning versus machine learning that is astronomical.
I’m not sure what you’re going on about with “fear”. But I think that training a model on non-public domain content, without the permission of (or even crediting) the creator should be illegal.
So tired of this bs argument.
… you will never be able to generate millions of paintings per day, so why even pretend it’s relevant here?
@admin
It was a hypothetical, I was just using myself as an example. Here’s one that’s not hypothetical:
I’m already a practiced in 3D modelling, UV unwrapping, texturing, lightning, rendering, compositing, etc. I could recreate a painting, pixel for pixel, in 3D space.
If I just hit render, is that my art now? It took a lot of research to learn how to do this, I should be able to make money on that effort, right?
I can do that millions of times and get the same result. I can set it on a loop and get as many as I want. It’s the same as copying the first render’s file, it just takes longer.
Now I decide to change the camera angle. Almost the entire image is technically different now, but the composition is the same. The colors, the subjects, relative placement in the scene, all the same, but it’s not really the same image anymore. Is it mine yet?
I can set the camera to a random X,Y,Z position, and have it point at a random object in the scene (so it never points off into blank space). Are those images mine? It’s never the same twice, but it still has the original artist’s style of subjects and lighting. I can even randomize each subjects position, size, hue, direction, add a modifier that distorts them to be wobbly or cubic… I can start generating random objects and throwing them in too, let’s call those “hallucinations”, thats a fun word…
At what specific point in this madness does the imagery go from someone else’s work to mine?
I absolutely can generate millions of unique images all day. Without using machine learning, based on work I recreated with my own human hands, and code I write uniquely from my experience and abilities. None of the work - artistically - is mine. I made no decisions on composition, style, meaning, mood, color theory, etc.
You may want to try to write these questions off, but I can tell you with certainty that other artists won’t.
Your argument is tired. Have you ever simply prompted a generative txt2img and told it to make 100 or even 200 in the batch? You might have 1 or 2 that shine and are interesting without any touch up. But almost every one will require inpainting, photoshop work, or other creative modifications to be worth a damn. And even then some won’t be.
Like I said in my comment. It will be banal without real creativity. It doesn’t even take millions of “paintings” to get there. No one will care about cheaply manufactured junk after the novelty wears off. We will demand more than that.
Ultimately it will be a tool that extends all our creativity. It already is. But if we fear it because of arguments like yours then laws will be made to keep it out of the hands of the common plebe. But it won’t disappear. You can bet your ass it won’t. It will just be used in dark places by powerful people, and not just for banal image prompting. And then you can fear it rightfully.
You’re missing (or ignoring) the point of my argument. A human who learns from other work can only apply that skill in a limited amount. Even if a human learns to copy Van Gogh’s style and continually churns out minor variations of his work, they cannot produce dozens per minute. Let alone learn to do that equally well from several hundreds (thousands?) of other artists. There’s a scale difference in human learning versus machine learning that is astronomical.
I’m not sure what you’re going on about with “fear”. But I think that training a model on non-public domain content, without the permission of (or even crediting) the creator should be illegal.