Vague. Does that mean, let them keep launching attacks against your civilians from behind human shields, or send in ground forces expecting wildly massive casualties?
At its root it’s actually pretty simple. If it involves killing children, do not do it. If you’d like we can get into the more in depth discussion of slowly forcing more and more people into a terrible situation and how that drives them into the arms of Hamas, but at its root, don’t shoot kids.
Given that one cannot see the future, there’s always a chance of collateral damage with any military action, and a decent chance it will be a child in Gaza where the inhabitants decided to have a lot of them, it sounds like you’ve ruled out any sort of reprisal. Let them slaughter your civilians with impunity, then? Great plan.
Listen man, I get you’re not arguing in good faith here but here goes. The Hamas attacks on Israeli citizens are inexcusable, but they did not and do not excuse the indiscriminate bombing of one of if not the most densely populated areas on the planet. One that I might add has a population that is on average 14.
Is this an easy or quick thing to resolve? No, absolutely not. Is doing nothing a good option? No. Is killing thousands and forcing the rest into the fucking sea the correct response? Fuck no.
I get you’re not arguing in good faith here but here goes.
I resent that characterization, just because you don’t like what I have to say doesn’t mean I’m not arguing in good faith.
he Hamas attacks on Israeli citizens are inexcusable, but they did not and do not excuse the indiscriminate bombing
According to Israel the bombings are not indiscriminate, they target valid military objectives.
One that I might add has a population that is on average 14. … Is doing nothing a good option? No. Is killing thousands and forcing the rest into the fucking sea the correct response? Fuck no.
No one is being driven into the sea. It seems like you’re implying that the consequences of Gazans having lots of children then provoking war against a superior force should be to bind Israel’s hands regarding how they can respond, denying them access to common military tactics that minimize their own losses. You’ve ruled out doing nothing and airstrikes. The only viable option I can see that remains: the IDF should now have to sacrifice lots of soldiers and hand Hamas a victory by going in without air support, because Gazan forces are hiding among Gazan children. That’s a tremendously bad move in terms of military strategy.
Hamas has to go. There is no stable situation leaving them in power.
We have a couple different approaches to resolving this:
A. providing a transportation corridor from fatah controlled territory to Gaza, providing military aid to Fatah, and let them clear out hamas.
B. Open up a large refugee camp just outside of Gaza, allow all the Gaza civilians to migrate to this new camp, screen for weapons. Once everyone who wants to leave is left, then you do the ground operations inside of old Gaza…
C. Invite UN peacekeepers to occupy Gaza, and then run new elections under UN observation
Though I take small issue with your comment, the implication is, we can’t do anything except kill more people. We’ve tried killing them before, that didn’t work, we should try killing them harder this time. That’s not a stable situation either - unless you kill all of them. And if that’s the goal, they’re doing a bad job of it. They’re doing it too slowly
Under no circumstance will Hamas “go”. Hamas and its allies in the Palestinian resistance represent the will of the entire Palestinian people. The Palestinian authority that Israel and the west has imposed on us will crumble if it ever has to face Hamas. Palestinians will resist violently until all of Palestine is liberated. That is that.
So keep the status quo, allow Hamas to stay in power, and improve the infrastructure of an actively belligerent enemy? Wow what a reward you’d give them for slaughtering your people, maybe they should do it again next time they need infrastructure.
Maybe if Israel actually allowed Gaza to hold elections, Hamas wouldn’t be in power 🤔 instead Bibi needed a bad guy on his doorstep to keep in power, and he was too busy engaging in ethnic cleansing in the west bank to actually secure the “border” (i.e, the walls of the open air prison Palestinians are kept in) with Gaza.
Israel is never going to have true security keeping a group of people trapped, without political rights, with strict controls on their access to basic goods. Fuck Hamas, but violence is the predictable result of depriving people of political rights and basic freedoms. Today it’s Hamas, tomorrow it’s some other group, it will keep happening. Building a better cage will only do so much good, desperate people are dangerous. Until that is resolved, Israel will have no real security.
Israel is never going to have true security keeping a group of people trapped, without political rights, with strict controls on their access to basic goods.
I think they recognize this, given their recent statements. Hamas has made it clear they will not surrender or negotiate for a viable peace no matter how much worse Israel can and will make things. I suspect for this reason we’re probably going to see a forcible regime change and/or some annexation in Gaza very soon.
I was specifically referring to the 2021 elections and Israel’s refusal to allow East Jerusalem to vote after Israel annexed the territory. But you probably knew that. Palestinians dislike Hamas, an election likely would have removed them from power, but Israel gave Hamas the bullshit excuse it needed to stay in power. Great job!
Hamas has made it clear they will not surrender or negotiate for a viable peace
I don’t know if you have reading comprehension problems or were specifically ignoring the point, but I was explicitly talking about what comes after Hamas. You have 2.1 million people in a cage for decades. You cut off their food and water for weeks, kill 10,000 people, over half children, and you think even after you kill every Hamas leader and solider that the citizens that left are just going to go back to living in their cage without human rights? This is something the US learned in Afghanistan, you kill one civilian, you create two new terrorists. The same will happen here. Unless, of course, your intention was to lump all Palestinians under the label of “Hamas”, in which case consider your true colors seen!
I suspect for this reason we’re probably going to see a forcible regime change and/or some annexation in Gaza very soon.
I also agree that Israel intends to engage in illegal ethnic cleansing. Glad we’re on the same page about that at least.
I was specifically referring to the 2021 elections and Israel’s refusal to allow East Jerusalem to vote after Israel annexed the territory. But you probably knew that.
Actually I am unaware of this, time for some reading, thanks for mentioning it. Any sources besides Wikipedia you’d recommend?
What comes after Hamas[?] You cut off their food and water for weeks, kill 10,000 people, over half children, and you think even after you kill every Hamas leader and solider that the citizens that left are just going to go back to living in their cage without human rights?
Rage doesn’t change their realpolitik situation. At this rate they if don’t make viable peace their remaining land will ebb away. If they are left in charge, I wonder if PA might be more amenable to real concessions now that they see how bad massive civilian attacks combined with a refusal to negotiate or surrender has made things for Hamas. If nothing else this has shown things can always get worse for them if they choose not to pacify. Gaza is experiencing the stick, next Israel will probably offer Palestinian leaders willing to be reasonable a carrot.
That’s presuming Israel doesn’t annex the entirety of Gaza, they reportedly tried negotiating for Egypt to take in all 2 million Gazans.
I also agree that Israel intends to engage in illegal ethnic cleansing.
Calling it ethnic cleansing doesn’t make much sense given that 20% of Israel’s citizenry is Arab. Israel is not ethnically homogeneous, but perhaps moving people who are actively trying to kill them and unwilling to surrender farther away from them violates some other international law their opponents can clutch pearls over:
The official United Nations definition of ethnic cleansing is “rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove from a given area persons of another ethnic or religious group.”
Don’t forget that Netanyahu is responsible for said status quo. He’s the reason Hamas has as much power as it does. There’s ways to dismantle them peacefully. He’s done the opposite because he wants this dangerous group to give him pretext. Firing him and his radicals would go a long way toward a more peaceful solution.
No one has been able to satisfactorily answer it every time I’ve seen it asked. I thought I’d pose the same question I’ve seen elsewhere to see if 'yall have any better ideas. It’s easy to be a critic, it’s harder to offer viable solutions.
I’m going to assume you’re familiar with this long, complicated conflict. If you were in Israel’s shoes, how would you respond to the Hamas attack?
Not murder children
Vague. Does that mean, let them keep launching attacks against your civilians from behind human shields, or send in ground forces expecting wildly massive casualties?
At its root it’s actually pretty simple. If it involves killing children, do not do it. If you’d like we can get into the more in depth discussion of slowly forcing more and more people into a terrible situation and how that drives them into the arms of Hamas, but at its root, don’t shoot kids.
Given that one cannot see the future, there’s always a chance of collateral damage with any military action, and a decent chance it will be a child in Gaza where the inhabitants decided to have a lot of them, it sounds like you’ve ruled out any sort of reprisal. Let them slaughter your civilians with impunity, then? Great plan.
Listen man, I get you’re not arguing in good faith here but here goes. The Hamas attacks on Israeli citizens are inexcusable, but they did not and do not excuse the indiscriminate bombing of one of if not the most densely populated areas on the planet. One that I might add has a population that is on average 14.
Is this an easy or quick thing to resolve? No, absolutely not. Is doing nothing a good option? No. Is killing thousands and forcing the rest into the fucking sea the correct response? Fuck no.
I resent that characterization, just because you don’t like what I have to say doesn’t mean I’m not arguing in good faith.
According to Israel the bombings are not indiscriminate, they target valid military objectives.
No one is being driven into the sea. It seems like you’re implying that the consequences of Gazans having lots of children then provoking war against a superior force should be to bind Israel’s hands regarding how they can respond, denying them access to common military tactics that minimize their own losses. You’ve ruled out doing nothing and airstrikes. The only viable option I can see that remains: the IDF should now have to sacrifice lots of soldiers and hand Hamas a victory by going in without air support, because Gazan forces are hiding among Gazan children. That’s a tremendously bad move in terms of military strategy.
Assuming you’re being genuine:
Hamas has to go. There is no stable situation leaving them in power.
We have a couple different approaches to resolving this:
A. providing a transportation corridor from fatah controlled territory to Gaza, providing military aid to Fatah, and let them clear out hamas.
B. Open up a large refugee camp just outside of Gaza, allow all the Gaza civilians to migrate to this new camp, screen for weapons. Once everyone who wants to leave is left, then you do the ground operations inside of old Gaza…
C. Invite UN peacekeepers to occupy Gaza, and then run new elections under UN observation
Though I take small issue with your comment, the implication is, we can’t do anything except kill more people. We’ve tried killing them before, that didn’t work, we should try killing them harder this time. That’s not a stable situation either - unless you kill all of them. And if that’s the goal, they’re doing a bad job of it. They’re doing it too slowly
Under no circumstance will Hamas “go”. Hamas and its allies in the Palestinian resistance represent the will of the entire Palestinian people. The Palestinian authority that Israel and the west has imposed on us will crumble if it ever has to face Hamas. Palestinians will resist violently until all of Palestine is liberated. That is that.
Fire Netanyahu and the entire mossad for this shit tier intelligence and then fix the Gaza infrastructure.
I like the fire Netanyahu part.
So keep the status quo, allow Hamas to stay in power, and improve the infrastructure of an actively belligerent enemy? Wow what a reward you’d give them for slaughtering your people, maybe they should do it again next time they need infrastructure.
Maybe if Israel actually allowed Gaza to hold elections, Hamas wouldn’t be in power 🤔 instead Bibi needed a bad guy on his doorstep to keep in power, and he was too busy engaging in ethnic cleansing in the west bank to actually secure the “border” (i.e, the walls of the open air prison Palestinians are kept in) with Gaza.
Israel is never going to have true security keeping a group of people trapped, without political rights, with strict controls on their access to basic goods. Fuck Hamas, but violence is the predictable result of depriving people of political rights and basic freedoms. Today it’s Hamas, tomorrow it’s some other group, it will keep happening. Building a better cage will only do so much good, desperate people are dangerous. Until that is resolved, Israel will have no real security.
They did hold elections, Gaza elected Hamas and then Hamas did a coup and ensured an election has not been held there since.
I think they recognize this, given their recent statements. Hamas has made it clear they will not surrender or negotiate for a viable peace no matter how much worse Israel can and will make things. I suspect for this reason we’re probably going to see a forcible regime change and/or some annexation in Gaza very soon.
I was specifically referring to the 2021 elections and Israel’s refusal to allow East Jerusalem to vote after Israel annexed the territory. But you probably knew that. Palestinians dislike Hamas, an election likely would have removed them from power, but Israel gave Hamas the bullshit excuse it needed to stay in power. Great job!
I don’t know if you have reading comprehension problems or were specifically ignoring the point, but I was explicitly talking about what comes after Hamas. You have 2.1 million people in a cage for decades. You cut off their food and water for weeks, kill 10,000 people, over half children, and you think even after you kill every Hamas leader and solider that the citizens that left are just going to go back to living in their cage without human rights? This is something the US learned in Afghanistan, you kill one civilian, you create two new terrorists. The same will happen here. Unless, of course, your intention was to lump all Palestinians under the label of “Hamas”, in which case consider your true colors seen!
I also agree that Israel intends to engage in illegal ethnic cleansing. Glad we’re on the same page about that at least.
Actually I am unaware of this, time for some reading, thanks for mentioning it. Any sources besides Wikipedia you’d recommend?
Rage doesn’t change their realpolitik situation. At this rate they if don’t make viable peace their remaining land will ebb away. If they are left in charge, I wonder if PA might be more amenable to real concessions now that they see how bad massive civilian attacks combined with a refusal to negotiate or surrender has made things for Hamas. If nothing else this has shown things can always get worse for them if they choose not to pacify. Gaza is experiencing the stick, next Israel will probably offer Palestinian leaders willing to be reasonable a carrot.
That’s presuming Israel doesn’t annex the entirety of Gaza, they reportedly tried negotiating for Egypt to take in all 2 million Gazans.
Calling it ethnic cleansing doesn’t make much sense given that 20% of Israel’s citizenry is Arab. Israel is not ethnically homogeneous, but perhaps moving people who are actively trying to kill them and unwilling to surrender farther away from them violates some other international law their opponents can clutch pearls over:
Don’t forget that Netanyahu is responsible for said status quo. He’s the reason Hamas has as much power as it does. There’s ways to dismantle them peacefully. He’s done the opposite because he wants this dangerous group to give him pretext. Firing him and his radicals would go a long way toward a more peaceful solution.
Are you people being paid? I’ve seen this “question” like 15 times.
He’s the one who posted it 15 times
No one has been able to satisfactorily answer it every time I’ve seen it asked. I thought I’d pose the same question I’ve seen elsewhere to see if 'yall have any better ideas. It’s easy to be a critic, it’s harder to offer viable solutions.
Oh word? Because every time I see literally “not murder children”
Not doing something isn’t a solution. How, specifically, would you respond?
If I was Israeli I would dismantle my god forsaken cursed country and end the scourge that it has been in the region.