As much of a win as this is, there are any number of normal battlefield conditions and reasons this could’ve happened, that aren’t just “HAHA RUSSIAN MILITARY DUMB”
- Electronic warfare systems are typically cycled to allow friendly forces to use the spectrums they jam. These schedules are timed by counter-EW teams.
- Missles and bombs often have multiple guidance systems e.g. the GMLRS fired by HIMARS/M270 MLRS both GPS and intertial guidance systems.
- HARM (Anti-radiation missiles) could have been deployed to force the Russians to kill active radar systems of the SAM battery protecting this system.
- Laser guidance from special forces, or local partisan group, could have provided the targeting.
- The story itself could be part of an information or counter-intelligence operation to hide real means and methods used, or trick Russian military/intelligence.
And these are just a few reasons why while this is a win, should probably not be used as confirmation bias to underestimate Russia’s capabilities.
It doesn’t change that “HAHA RUSSIAN MILITARY DUMB” either though.
That’s just not accurate, and honestly, it’s dangerous.
Yes, the Russian military is deeply flawed and at times, comically tragic in its errors, but it’s still a lethal organization that has shown itself capable of learning and adapting.
That attitude is most concerning because the unsaid, but logical next point is, “then why hasn’t Ukraine won? Are they HAHA DUMB as well?”
You may not be thinking that, but that is what pumping that idea out into the ether leads to.
Yes, they have made mind boogling choices at times, but at other times, they’ve shown high levels competence and the ability to change and evolve their tactics, much to the detriment of Ukrainian forces.
Listen when adults speak to you
I do wonder what the impact will be on Russia’s military equipment export business thanks to this war. It’s pretty clear now how inferior their tech is compared to the west.
I think they are currently also having a massive brain drain with their educated population simply leaving elsewhere to get better pay and not get drafted.
Good.
If you are a college educated Russian reading this, please consider motivating all in your influence to move to another country that is not the Russian Federation; USA will pay you better and treat you better with your knowledge and talents and is a country occupied entirely by immigrants from every culture, so you will not have trouble finding your community.
The over quarter of a million casualties certainly isn’t helping them either
If you are a college educated Russian reading this, please consider motivating all in your influence to move to another country that is not the Russian Federation
That sounds like a great way for a college educated Russian to get themselves locked up for decades. The better advice is to just get out without telling anyone you’re planning to.
Terrible morrale, few people supporting the war, the rest forced into this stupid war and with the world donating their war tech to ukraine it would be hard to come out on top
Russia filled a niche of cheaper AND no strings. Their arms exports have collapsed post Ukraine, but that’s also partly because they’ve diverted arms to their own war effort.
China and India have largely picked up the slack, but I believe it’s mostly China.
South Korea has also greatly expanded it’s arms industry in the past decade, especially it’s naval yards, but I think they mostly compete with Western firms.
Well, when anti-GPS and GPS collide, what do you expect?
Annihilation?
I bet the jammers were unsophisticated enough you could just program the GPS to continue moving in the direction where the over the air noise levels kept increasing.
Depending on the range at which the signals start to become jammed, it could be possible to navigate solely by IMU for the final leg also.
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I’m not sure I follow you. If the missile is using gps for guidance(during at least part of it’s flight), then it is by definition a gps quided rocket is it not?
Also, gps quidance isnt terribly expensive. I use industrial grade units which go for about 3kusd and provide sub-metre accuracy in highly gnss denied enviroments. Lower grade ~3m accuracy units go for around a hundred dollars, and would be completely sufficient for hitting a target the size of a truck.
For all the legitimate criticisms of Russian military, their EW and Counter-EW capabilities are actually world class. Which is why it is a big deal when they’re destroyed, or captured.
The bombs were probably using the encrypted military GPS frequencies that are more resistant to jamming.
Encryption isn’t really a factor with this type of satellite navigation jamming, at least as far as I’m aware.
Frequency hopping however can be a used as a RF jamming countermeasure, but I’m not sure if that is really for satellite navigation systems.
The frequencies all satnav systems work on are also very specific and known. I would assume that any satnav jammers just jam every all RF used by all GNSS constellations at once, but maybe they open up certain bands to allow for their own guided munitions at pre-scheduled times.
As another commenter said, I don’t think cryptography is the main problem.
You’ve got to be able to modulate some numbers out of the radio signal first before you need to be concerned if it’s encrypted or not.
GPS signals from power conserving satellites are so weak that I’d imagine that overwhelming them with noise on all frequencies would be the easy answer. (Although there’s a Big Brain hyper-cunning answer to that…).
This sounds like a gag from the Roadrunner cartoon.
I want to read that the GPS jammer killed the GPS on the bomb which continued flying in an unintended direction until accidentally hitting the jammer.
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Can’t a GPS jammer be targetted simply by anti-radiation missiles?!
In my ignorance I’m thinking of it as basically a single really powerful emitter in a certain range of frequencies which would really stand out with the appropriate frequency filter, plus it’s not as if there would be any other ground-based emitters around in that range of frequencies as civilians for obvious reasons aren’t supposed to be using devices which emit in that range (receive, sure, but not emit).
Anti-radiation missles targett the high output of the RF spectrum used by radars, not those used by satellite navigation.
But can those things not be adjusted to target a different part of the spectrum?!
I mean, in terms of just Electronics a band filter can be changed to have a different center frequency, although there probably are other considerations beyond merelly the frequencies being taken in by the missile controller when switching for targetting radars to targetting jammers.
I was just wondering if the Ukranians (who definitelly seem to have lots of knowhow when it comes to weapon manufaturing) haven’t altered a missile to operate similarly to a HAARM but for other frequencies rather than just the ones used by radars or even if there isn’t already an anti-jammer mode (with a selectable frequency) for existing missiles.
Warning: This is speculation based on my existing knowledge, mostly because I don’t feel like Googling for 5-30min to confirm. But if anything is wrong, please show me a source so I can correct
The AGM-88 HARM isn’t like a cc1111 or some infinite band SDR IC that you can just switch the frequencies on. It literally targets radiation.
SAM Radars pump out shitloads of specific radiation, like cook your steaks and go sterile levels, if you’re too close.
Different radar bands are used for tracking vs targeting, and maybe the HARM has to be toggled between those, or maybe it always tracks both, I don’t know.
Regardless, it’s not designed to just “pick any RF and go boom”. It’s sensor track the high levels of radiation that are specifically emitted by SAM Radars, because it’s designed for SEAD (Suppression Enemy Air Defense).
Maybe newer SEAD missiles have that flexibility, but the HARM is originally 70s era, and that’s what Ukraine has been provided - at least publicly.
Edit: additionally, the HARM has to be mission programmed prior to launch because of the SU retrofits. Unlike on say, an F-16, where it’s fully controllable from within the cockpit to run a variety of missions, make changes mid-sorty, etc.
Was the jammer just a coat hangar, 9v battery, and aluminum tape?
No, but there are actually very low very cost, extremely dangerous and illegal, jammers you can make with not too much more. Basically they just burst shitloads of electrical power into the air that jamm up a surprisingly broad range of nearby RF spectrum.
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By the time £3.999m has been siphoned off on
bribes and corruptionnecessary overheads, you should be happy with the coathanger and a car battery, comrade.deleted by creator
Was making a joke with you, about how much the Russian army loses in corruption and how their prices are not to be believed. Wasn’t having a go at you. Try to be a bit more chill?
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Plot twist: the bombs used GLONASS.
Unlikely if it was a US provided munition.
That said, I generally assume that most English language articles use GPS as a stand-in for any GNSS constellation, regardless of which one, or combination of them, was actually used.
Although, there is a reason why the Russian pilots and drivers were photographed using off the shelf Garmin units… much like the rest of their military, GLONAS was a legacy Soviet project that hasn’t been well maintained or updated well post collapse.
Tee hee.
To any troll farm workers: ask Putin how Democracy’s dick tastes.
Second best army in Ukraine
That “jammer” was definitely tampered with by the russkies’ corruption and greed.
This title confused me, because A-GPS is also a thing.
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Sounds like those bombs were wasted.
