No, I’m not a vegan because I don’t know where the line for life I care about begins, but saying you don’t care at all what others kill to eat is clearly not true unless you’re just a pure egoist.
Am not an egoist, it’s just the nature of things. Food is food. Having guilt about eating some foods is fine, but you can’t change who you are and certainly can’t undo 100k+ years of evolution over night. Luckily we understand our bodies enough and food is bountiful so we can pick and chose to compensate for plant only diet, but not everyone has the same luxury nor desire to do so. If you kill to eat, that’s fine, that’s how world works.
If you are in a situation where you must live exclusively off the land then you probably aren’t the person vegans are addressing. If you’re any random human, and especially if you are any random Lemmy user that is probably not the case though. Vegan staples are not a luxury. I’ve gone weeks on end eating for less than 5 USD a day in areas where food was expensive many times when I was tight on money. Beans, lentils, rice, potatoes, and other dense plant foods are some of the cheapest foods available.
As for desire, that’s simple. Desire very rarely trumps more serious moral considerations. It’s never right to murder someone simply because I desire to do so, and personally I don’t desire murdering others. Saying that’s how the world works is even worse than the naturalistic fallacy. You’re essentially saying morality and conditions cannot improve, that the world is immutably (un)just. You’re also saying we can’t change who we are, do you just not believe in self improvement? This isn’t just a depressing outlook but it is just historically inaccurate. It’s clear to me that there are many times in history where conditions got better or worse for people, and often do to the choices of humans.
You can believe in whatever you want… the thing is reality doesn’t care. Not believing in gravity doesn’t make you float. Humans are omnivores and have been for a very very long time. The fact you can survive only on plant based diet doesn’t change that fact.
And just calling something fallacy doesn’t make it so either. You people are ready to preach how it’s not okay to murder something for your own gain but go on left and right using plastic, leather, fuel and all kinds of other materials derived from animals. It has nothing to do with luxury. If you don’t wish to eat something, don’t. But don’t go on preaching as if your choice is morally superior or better for the environment and similar, because guess what… it’s not.
Why are you even debating veganism when you don’t know what veganism is. Veganism isn’t a diet, and it includes avoiding all animal products whenever possible.
And just calling something a fallacy doesn’t make it so either.
But you are posting legit historical and ethical fallacies. Your stance is the natural is the good and that the world is impermeable anyway so why bother, honestly I’m not sure why you’d have to make both of these arguments as either would suffice if they were valid to begin with. And they are more than fallacies, they are bad faith arguments as nobody seriously believes these things.
Consciousness is a product of self-referential data gathering. Data that looks upon itself, that is sapience. Data that looks upon data, that is consciousness. Animals have this. Plants don’t.
As a human, I think it is okay to eat people. Humans are currently overpopulating our planet and have completely taken over. We don’t need that many humans. As a human, I may be very silly and cute, but when my species gets together to do something, we tend to make a big mess of it and just ruin everything. So we must reduce our population one way or another. Additionally, imagine how much meat one of us might have on our bones? Perhaps not as much as a cow, but when there are billions of us then that’s like, billions of pounds of meat! Wow! You like meat right? I know I do. That’s a lot of meat and it’s just right there. I know that personally if any small dinosaurs came up to me and started chewing on my legs I’d let them do it. I don’t need all my meat, you know?
Go green, eat human. Mother nature will thank you!
Sincerely,
- a human
Edit: oh no! I have made the human mistake of accidently saying I like meat on a vegan community post. This was a mistake because vegans do not like meat. I do not understand this because humans eat meat like all superior species. I do not understand why a human would want to eat only plants like human prey animals. I am a human and I like human meat, as it should be.
humans are superior because we have tamed out environment to a degree that no other animal has been able to do. we are the top of the food chain and are in control.
Yes, yes! Humans are superior because they eat meat! Just like small dinosaurs do! But I eat more meat than they do. It is not fair. So I should share my meat with them! I do not need all of my human meat. I sit at my human computer all day, I do not need my human legs. If any small dinosaurs hid under my desk and ate my legs, I would not mind. They are hungry and need my meat, so I will let them have it.
Sorry I had to just deadpan describe what you were doing. Normally it would be a mood killer, and I would avoid doing that, but the mood in here is already rancid.
Eh, kinda. It more has to do with the fact that there are a lot of problems with eating human meat from a health and safety standpoint and it kinda blows my mind that people still use, “so it’s okay to eat humans then, right?” unironically. It’s a little bit of column A (making fun of carnists), a little bit of column B (making fun of the, “human meat” argument), and a little bit of a hidden column C (I like smol raptors and I firmly believe that they’d be on the same level as cats and dogs when it comes to pet popularity if they were still around). I was actually considering making a shitty drawing of a bunch of raptors at a computer or in a trench coat with a human mask or something, but the joke’s kinda ruined at this point.
Is it ok to eat people?
Sure, if everyone involved consents.
Do animals consent?
Do plants?
No, I’m not a vegan because I don’t know where the line for life I care about begins, but saying you don’t care at all what others kill to eat is clearly not true unless you’re just a pure egoist.
Am not an egoist, it’s just the nature of things. Food is food. Having guilt about eating some foods is fine, but you can’t change who you are and certainly can’t undo 100k+ years of evolution over night. Luckily we understand our bodies enough and food is bountiful so we can pick and chose to compensate for plant only diet, but not everyone has the same luxury nor desire to do so. If you kill to eat, that’s fine, that’s how world works.
If you are in a situation where you must live exclusively off the land then you probably aren’t the person vegans are addressing. If you’re any random human, and especially if you are any random Lemmy user that is probably not the case though. Vegan staples are not a luxury. I’ve gone weeks on end eating for less than 5 USD a day in areas where food was expensive many times when I was tight on money. Beans, lentils, rice, potatoes, and other dense plant foods are some of the cheapest foods available.
As for desire, that’s simple. Desire very rarely trumps more serious moral considerations. It’s never right to murder someone simply because I desire to do so, and personally I don’t desire murdering others. Saying that’s how the world works is even worse than the naturalistic fallacy. You’re essentially saying morality and conditions cannot improve, that the world is immutably (un)just. You’re also saying we can’t change who we are, do you just not believe in self improvement? This isn’t just a depressing outlook but it is just historically inaccurate. It’s clear to me that there are many times in history where conditions got better or worse for people, and often do to the choices of humans.
You can believe in whatever you want… the thing is reality doesn’t care. Not believing in gravity doesn’t make you float. Humans are omnivores and have been for a very very long time. The fact you can survive only on plant based diet doesn’t change that fact.
And just calling something fallacy doesn’t make it so either. You people are ready to preach how it’s not okay to murder something for your own gain but go on left and right using plastic, leather, fuel and all kinds of other materials derived from animals. It has nothing to do with luxury. If you don’t wish to eat something, don’t. But don’t go on preaching as if your choice is morally superior or better for the environment and similar, because guess what… it’s not.
Why are you even debating veganism when you don’t know what veganism is. Veganism isn’t a diet, and it includes avoiding all animal products whenever possible.
But you are posting legit historical and ethical fallacies. Your stance is the natural is the good and that the world is impermeable anyway so why bother, honestly I’m not sure why you’d have to make both of these arguments as either would suffice if they were valid to begin with. And they are more than fallacies, they are bad faith arguments as nobody seriously believes these things.
Consciousness is a product of self-referential data gathering. Data that looks upon itself, that is sapience. Data that looks upon data, that is consciousness. Animals have this. Plants don’t.
As a human, I think it is okay to eat people. Humans are currently overpopulating our planet and have completely taken over. We don’t need that many humans. As a human, I may be very silly and cute, but when my species gets together to do something, we tend to make a big mess of it and just ruin everything. So we must reduce our population one way or another. Additionally, imagine how much meat one of us might have on our bones? Perhaps not as much as a cow, but when there are billions of us then that’s like, billions of pounds of meat! Wow! You like meat right? I know I do. That’s a lot of meat and it’s just right there. I know that personally if any small dinosaurs came up to me and started chewing on my legs I’d let them do it. I don’t need all my meat, you know?
Go green, eat human. Mother nature will thank you!
Sincerely,
- a human
Edit: oh no! I have made the human mistake of accidently saying I like meat on a vegan community post. This was a mistake because vegans do not like meat. I do not understand this because humans eat meat like all superior species. I do not understand why a human would want to eat only plants like human prey animals. I am a human and I like human meat, as it should be.
I’m not a vegan but saying “humans eat meat like all superior species” is so weird bro like superior in what way?
humans are superior because we have tamed out environment to a degree that no other animal has been able to do. we are the top of the food chain and are in control.
Yes, yes! Humans are superior because they eat meat! Just like small dinosaurs do! But I eat more meat than they do. It is not fair. So I should share my meat with them! I do not need all of my human meat. I sit at my human computer all day, I do not need my human legs. If any small dinosaurs hid under my desk and ate my legs, I would not mind. They are hungry and need my meat, so I will let them have it.
Does this mean you are more “superior” than me because I do not eat meat?
You are arguing with someone who is roleplaying.
They are, as far as I can tell, pretending to be some small dinosaur which is in turn pretending to be a human on the internet. It is a bit character.
Too late, the mood’s ruined. At least you recognized what I was doing I guess.
Sorry I had to just deadpan describe what you were doing. Normally it would be a mood killer, and I would avoid doing that, but the mood in here is already rancid.
I think they’re satirising carnists, who think that eating animals is okay because of biological supremacy but won’t admit it.
Eh, kinda. It more has to do with the fact that there are a lot of problems with eating human meat from a health and safety standpoint and it kinda blows my mind that people still use, “so it’s okay to eat humans then, right?” unironically. It’s a little bit of column A (making fun of carnists), a little bit of column B (making fun of the, “human meat” argument), and a little bit of a hidden column C (I like smol raptors and I firmly believe that they’d be on the same level as cats and dogs when it comes to pet popularity if they were still around). I was actually considering making a shitty drawing of a bunch of raptors at a computer or in a trench coat with a human mask or something, but the joke’s kinda ruined at this point.
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