Pro-human rights bro, not pro Islam. Israel has to be held to the same standards that they preach around the world. If they didn’t preach so much about genocide and the holocaust then I guess it could be different for them.
I am more against religious fundamentalism, regardless of source. If it is the origin of terrorism and senseless murder, it needs to stop regardless of which book people believe.
Exactly this. People are oversimplify the whole story. In my opinion there’s 2 camps of people who currently supports Palestine.
They just don’t know the historical background and don’t know specifically -what- Hamas did the 7th, nor the huge support Hamas has in Palestine. (to clarify, A TERROR GROUP that has SUMMER CAMPS where they train kids to become terrorists).
They support them because they enjoy jews getting killed.
Concidering how the rich arab countries has reacted during their neighbour’s times of need earlier: closing borders and not caring, group number 2 seems likely.
Just picture that the Palestinians actually celebrate Hamas terrorist attack, they feel joy over the actions many of us now have seen on videos and they celebrate it even in the streets in Western countries.
Imagine that 57% of Palestinians supports Hamas and 50% are against the idea of peace, 71% supports PIJ (Islamic Jihad), all while Biden won his election with 51%, Obama won with 53%, George Bush won in 1989 by 53%, last time any president got more votes than the support Hamas has in Palestine was in 1984, 39 years ago! Source about Palestinians support.
That’s how enormous the support of Hamas is, and some of ya’ll are defending them. You need to watch the videos released of the atrocities Hamas committed, see the actions that you’re defending, but I bet you don’t even have the stomachs for it.
What about the group that’s aware that Palestinians were forced out of their homes and have been forced to live in impoverished conditions for decades?
What about the group that recognizes the actions of both sides as being wrong and that neither side is “right”?
There are many Israelis fighting hard to protect civilian lives, both in Gaza and the West Bank. You should look up B’Tselem. Quite a few of their activists got arrested over the last few days for peacefully protesting the bombing campaign.
Oh yes I’m not justifying israels expansion at all, israel isn’t some completely innocent toddler sitting in a corner. It’s however very interesting that you’re excusing the recorded actions that has showed up online though, the rape, the murders, the torture, the executions of whole families in their homes, because “israel also did bad!”.
I feel no empathy for those who affiliates themselves, supports, and/or celebrates it. Those actions regardless of the reason or source are absolutely fucking despicable. They specifically targetted civilians instead of soldiers, police, or people in the government. They went in to specifically kill anybody that couldn’t defend themselves simply for being jewish, and living in Israel. Watch the clips again and then tell me “Oh yeah well what about…”
Nobody is exusing anything. Shelling cities and blowing up residential buildings Is bad. So is raping and murdering civilians.
Most of us just want the violence to stop on both sides. Hamas was a side effect of Israel’s oppression. Same as most other terrorist groups and gangs. Everyone is doing awful things and it just needs to fucking stop.
Of course, war is hell and this will never end well for anybody. Check the statistics I linked though and you’ll find that 50% of Palestinians don’t want peace as long as israel exist. How would any sort of peace be established if half of the entire population is against it? The Jews and the Muslims have been in conflict with eachother over Jerusalem since the 1800’s. As Jewish people moved into the city at an increasing rate the Muslims and jews started murdering eachother. The atrocities have been aweful from both sides for soon 150 years, long before Israel even existed and sadly now after this terrorist attack, it will probably end up as “just Israel”… I hope any innocent civilian have the ability to get out of there before things really escalates.
However, to come back to my original point, you’ll never find compilations online of israelian soldiers doing the same things that the beloved Hamas did, and if they wouldve, you would never see Jewish people celebrate the rapes and murders of children and women.
Anybody here can say whatever they want, it’s beyond disgusting to see the amount of support and celebrations that was going on during the 7th october attack and the total lack of reaction from the rest of the world regarding it. Grow some fucking balls and condemn the celebrations. I’ll never have the urge to help anybody that approves of and/or celebrates the things shown in those videos.
Check the statistics I linked though and you’ll find that 50% of Palestinians don’t want peace as long as israel exist.
From your link:
Moreover, half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.”
That does not support your claim, because people were not asked about what you claim, and it’s grossly dishonest to suggest they answered based on your characterization.
The question is two-pronged, asking both whether Hamas should change their demands and then narrowing the possible solution down to one specific peace alternative that we know many Palestinians would be deeply unhappy with, given that it would mean substantial territorial concessions and might well also have been interpreted as largely giving up the very thorny right of return demand.
Nothing in this question asks people to agree or disagree to “peace as long as Israel exist”.
A more reasonable interpretation is that half of Gazans are support substantial concessions before even starting any negotiations by expressing support for a kind of peace that’d involve the Palestinian side giving up on big territorial claims from the outset.
When you misrepresent the numbers this way, why should anyone listen to you?
Your comments are rife with false dichotomies, strawmen, and general fabrications. If that’s what you need to make your points, you might want to look at your stance critically and ask yourself some hard questions.
It’s cute when someone posts claims contradicted by their own source. The link actually says that “57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas”.
Consider that while Hamas is a terrorist organisation it also runs social programs, exactly to effectively buy this kind of support. For some poor family in Gaza struggling to survive it’s unsurprising that if given handouts by Hamas that some will express that kind of muted positive views even for a dictatorial regime that 70% of Gazans wants removed from power per the same link (see below).
To try to twist that into “supports” is victim-blaming of the worst sort.
Should we meanwhile talk about Israel, where there actually are regular elections and majorities keep voting in regimes that perpetuate an apartheid regime and commits gross crimes against humanity? Or is it only people in Gaza who are responsible for their governments actions, despite the fact that the majority of those of voting age in Gaza were not old enough to be part of the electorate that brought Hamas to power (in an election where they got a minority of votes).
some of ya’ll are defending them
Just like some are defending the mass murderous apartheid regime of Israel or try to implicate Palestinian civilians for actions they had no party in.
Meanwhile most of us think Hamas are terrorists but also recognise that Israel is an oppressive apartheid state and the only party with the power to actually end this, and yet is doubling down on crimes against humanity.
And plenty of Americans (probably around 50% given recent election results) would rejoice over any innocent civilian we killed in “the war on terror” and would defend war criminals in the US military. Would that make it okay to starve and bomb the entire population of the US? Is everyone in this country a war criminal?
Misinformation, stereotypes, and “Wuttabaut 'murica” galore! Truly hit the trifecta. Not really no, when war crimes have been brought up the general concensus has been jail. Don’t make shit up.
Famous examples are that navy seal “Eddie Gallagher” or the 4 blackwater guys that killed 14 civilians in 2007. They were all convicted, but made the big headlines with a huge backlash after Trump pardoned them, the absolute fucking bafoon… If clips surfaced of american soldiers comitting these actions, people would be outraged. Remember Guantanamo bay? There was a huge public backlash and push towards closing it from all sides, and there’s strong support for arguing “the war” was lost because the public turned against it.
Google “american soldier jailed afghanistan” and the list of links will just keep going page by page. You’ll never see any terrorist imprisoned in Palestine because of their involvement and participation in the 7th october. But yeah sure “WHAT ABOUT 'MURICANS?!?!?!”
If you think hating Palestinians is justified because of support for Hamas while they do terrible things, do you also think it is justified to hate Israel for the inhumanity the Israeli government (which has the support of the Israeli people) has perpetuated since Israel was brought into the region?
The last time any election was held in Gaza most of the people weren’t even old enough to vote. And despite your efforts to smear the people as bloodthirsty your own link says the majority did not want to break the cease fire.
Massive support for various terrorist groups, one of them reaching 74%
Firstly, they’ve not been asked whether they support them. If you’re going to link surveys, maybe don’t actively misrepresent what they say.
The very same link also shows 70% want the PA to take over power in Gaza. Some “support”.
50% of the population don’t want peace with Israel.
An occupied population has a legal right under international law to engage in armed resistance against their occupier, so why is this surprising? A brutally oppressive apartheid state engaged in extensive war crimes and crimes against humanity does not have a right to an expectation that the other side want peace when they continue that oppression.
If Israel shows that it is willing to take Palestinian concerns seriously and Palestinians still don’t want peace, then you’d have an argument. As it is, it’s grossly unjustified to demand of the Palestinian population that they should be ready to surrender.
It’s simple, don’t steal their houses, encroach on their land, fracture their community into an archipelago divided by walls, and put checkpoints every two miles, and restrict trade. Don’t do any of that, especially don’t do it while preaching about genocide and the holocaust and then asking for hand outs. Then I wouldn’t care, and might even support israel.
This why Palestinians hate Israel, Israel literally destroyed their country.
Also pretty fucking rich to dig elections from 17 years ago where Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize other groups so people like you would be fooled.
Hamas are obviously fascistic, and they were voted in by Palestinians. Which means that IDF is being an antifascist in their current operations. Punch a nazi and all that.
You forgot another important point: the absolute majority of Muslims will defend Palestine, no matter what they do.
You risk being reprimanded in your Muslim community if you aren’t 100 % pro Palestine and often also when you aren’t pro Hamas. It has become part of their identity.
What a bullshit and extremely simplistic take on the situation. As if they have been the victims here for 70 years.
Palestinians haven’t been the victims here? The ones being evicted and shot by illegal “settlers” for decades?
I mean, didn’t this all start from a war where Israel was attacked by 3 countries and beat all of them so bad they actually gained ground?
“Egypt attacked me, so I get to annex the West Bank now”
Yeah, that’s not how logic works.
I agree, I’m surprised to see so much pro-Islam here.
Being against concentration camps (which is what Gaza is turned into) is not pro-Islam.
Pro-human rights bro, not pro Islam. Israel has to be held to the same standards that they preach around the world. If they didn’t preach so much about genocide and the holocaust then I guess it could be different for them.
The bigot shows his colours.
I am more against religious fundamentalism, regardless of source. If it is the origin of terrorism and senseless murder, it needs to stop regardless of which book people believe.
Exactly this. People are oversimplify the whole story. In my opinion there’s 2 camps of people who currently supports Palestine.
They just don’t know the historical background and don’t know specifically -what- Hamas did the 7th, nor the huge support Hamas has in Palestine. (to clarify, A TERROR GROUP that has SUMMER CAMPS where they train kids to become terrorists).
They support them because they enjoy jews getting killed.
Concidering how the rich arab countries has reacted during their neighbour’s times of need earlier: closing borders and not caring, group number 2 seems likely.
Just picture that the Palestinians actually celebrate Hamas terrorist attack, they feel joy over the actions many of us now have seen on videos and they celebrate it even in the streets in Western countries.
Imagine that 57% of Palestinians supports Hamas and 50% are against the idea of peace, 71% supports PIJ (Islamic Jihad), all while Biden won his election with 51%, Obama won with 53%, George Bush won in 1989 by 53%, last time any president got more votes than the support Hamas has in Palestine was in 1984, 39 years ago! Source about Palestinians support.
That’s how enormous the support of Hamas is, and some of ya’ll are defending them. You need to watch the videos released of the atrocities Hamas committed, see the actions that you’re defending, but I bet you don’t even have the stomachs for it.
What about the group that’s aware that Palestinians were forced out of their homes and have been forced to live in impoverished conditions for decades?
What about the group that recognizes the actions of both sides as being wrong and that neither side is “right”?
They’ll be ignored because all Israelis know what the state’s endgame is here and all its horrible implications.
There are many Israelis fighting hard to protect civilian lives, both in Gaza and the West Bank. You should look up B’Tselem. Quite a few of their activists got arrested over the last few days for peacefully protesting the bombing campaign.
Oh yes I’m not justifying israels expansion at all, israel isn’t some completely innocent toddler sitting in a corner. It’s however very interesting that you’re excusing the recorded actions that has showed up online though, the rape, the murders, the torture, the executions of whole families in their homes, because “israel also did bad!”.
I feel no empathy for those who affiliates themselves, supports, and/or celebrates it. Those actions regardless of the reason or source are absolutely fucking despicable. They specifically targetted civilians instead of soldiers, police, or people in the government. They went in to specifically kill anybody that couldn’t defend themselves simply for being jewish, and living in Israel. Watch the clips again and then tell me “Oh yeah well what about…”
Nobody is exusing anything. Shelling cities and blowing up residential buildings Is bad. So is raping and murdering civilians.
Most of us just want the violence to stop on both sides. Hamas was a side effect of Israel’s oppression. Same as most other terrorist groups and gangs. Everyone is doing awful things and it just needs to fucking stop.
Of course, war is hell and this will never end well for anybody. Check the statistics I linked though and you’ll find that 50% of Palestinians don’t want peace as long as israel exist. How would any sort of peace be established if half of the entire population is against it? The Jews and the Muslims have been in conflict with eachother over Jerusalem since the 1800’s. As Jewish people moved into the city at an increasing rate the Muslims and jews started murdering eachother. The atrocities have been aweful from both sides for soon 150 years, long before Israel even existed and sadly now after this terrorist attack, it will probably end up as “just Israel”… I hope any innocent civilian have the ability to get out of there before things really escalates.
However, to come back to my original point, you’ll never find compilations online of israelian soldiers doing the same things that the beloved Hamas did, and if they wouldve, you would never see Jewish people celebrate the rapes and murders of children and women.
Anybody here can say whatever they want, it’s beyond disgusting to see the amount of support and celebrations that was going on during the 7th october attack and the total lack of reaction from the rest of the world regarding it. Grow some fucking balls and condemn the celebrations. I’ll never have the urge to help anybody that approves of and/or celebrates the things shown in those videos.
From your link:
That does not support your claim, because people were not asked about what you claim, and it’s grossly dishonest to suggest they answered based on your characterization.
The question is two-pronged, asking both whether Hamas should change their demands and then narrowing the possible solution down to one specific peace alternative that we know many Palestinians would be deeply unhappy with, given that it would mean substantial territorial concessions and might well also have been interpreted as largely giving up the very thorny right of return demand.
Nothing in this question asks people to agree or disagree to “peace as long as Israel exist”.
A more reasonable interpretation is that half of Gazans are support substantial concessions before even starting any negotiations by expressing support for a kind of peace that’d involve the Palestinian side giving up on big territorial claims from the outset.
When you misrepresent the numbers this way, why should anyone listen to you?
Your comments are rife with false dichotomies, strawmen, and general fabrications. If that’s what you need to make your points, you might want to look at your stance critically and ask yourself some hard questions.
It’s cute when someone posts claims contradicted by their own source. The link actually says that “57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas”.
Consider that while Hamas is a terrorist organisation it also runs social programs, exactly to effectively buy this kind of support. For some poor family in Gaza struggling to survive it’s unsurprising that if given handouts by Hamas that some will express that kind of muted positive views even for a dictatorial regime that 70% of Gazans wants removed from power per the same link (see below).
To try to twist that into “supports” is victim-blaming of the worst sort.
Should we meanwhile talk about Israel, where there actually are regular elections and majorities keep voting in regimes that perpetuate an apartheid regime and commits gross crimes against humanity? Or is it only people in Gaza who are responsible for their governments actions, despite the fact that the majority of those of voting age in Gaza were not old enough to be part of the electorate that brought Hamas to power (in an election where they got a minority of votes).
Just like some are defending the mass murderous apartheid regime of Israel or try to implicate Palestinian civilians for actions they had no party in.
Meanwhile most of us think Hamas are terrorists but also recognise that Israel is an oppressive apartheid state and the only party with the power to actually end this, and yet is doubling down on crimes against humanity.
To focus on Hamas is deflection.
And plenty of Americans (probably around 50% given recent election results) would rejoice over any innocent civilian we killed in “the war on terror” and would defend war criminals in the US military. Would that make it okay to starve and bomb the entire population of the US? Is everyone in this country a war criminal?
Misinformation, stereotypes, and “Wuttabaut 'murica” galore! Truly hit the trifecta. Not really no, when war crimes have been brought up the general concensus has been jail. Don’t make shit up.
Famous examples are that navy seal “Eddie Gallagher” or the 4 blackwater guys that killed 14 civilians in 2007. They were all convicted, but made the big headlines with a huge backlash after Trump pardoned them, the absolute fucking bafoon… If clips surfaced of american soldiers comitting these actions, people would be outraged. Remember Guantanamo bay? There was a huge public backlash and push towards closing it from all sides, and there’s strong support for arguing “the war” was lost because the public turned against it.
Google “american soldier jailed afghanistan” and the list of links will just keep going page by page. You’ll never see any terrorist imprisoned in Palestine because of their involvement and participation in the 7th october. But yeah sure “WHAT ABOUT 'MURICANS?!?!?!”
If you think hating Palestinians is justified because of support for Hamas while they do terrible things, do you also think it is justified to hate Israel for the inhumanity the Israeli government (which has the support of the Israeli people) has perpetuated since Israel was brought into the region?
deleted by creator
Ah yes, the solution to all the murder is even more murder!
deleted by creator
The last time any election was held in Gaza most of the people weren’t even old enough to vote. And despite your efforts to smear the people as bloodthirsty your own link says the majority did not want to break the cease fire.
The very same source also explains:
Massive support for various terrorist groups, one of them reaching 74%
50% of the population don’t want peace with Israel.
Think it’s hard to twist that into anything other than being bloodthirsty for Israeli blood.
Firstly, they’ve not been asked whether they support them. If you’re going to link surveys, maybe don’t actively misrepresent what they say.
The very same link also shows 70% want the PA to take over power in Gaza. Some “support”.
An occupied population has a legal right under international law to engage in armed resistance against their occupier, so why is this surprising? A brutally oppressive apartheid state engaged in extensive war crimes and crimes against humanity does not have a right to an expectation that the other side want peace when they continue that oppression.
If Israel shows that it is willing to take Palestinian concerns seriously and Palestinians still don’t want peace, then you’d have an argument. As it is, it’s grossly unjustified to demand of the Palestinian population that they should be ready to surrender.
Sure if you remove all context.
Can you blame em after being bombed and oppressed for 70 years?
Every single person there has never known a time of peace.
If you have to lie to make your point, maybe you should reconsider how valid your point is.
It’s simple, don’t steal their houses, encroach on their land, fracture their community into an archipelago divided by walls, and put checkpoints every two miles, and restrict trade. Don’t do any of that, especially don’t do it while preaching about genocide and the holocaust and then asking for hand outs. Then I wouldn’t care, and might even support israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba?wprov=sfla1
This why Palestinians hate Israel, Israel literally destroyed their country.
Also pretty fucking rich to dig elections from 17 years ago where Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize other groups so people like you would be fooled.
deleted by creator
Hamas are obviously fascistic, and they were voted in by Palestinians. Which means that IDF is being an antifascist in their current operations. Punch a nazi and all that.
Just to clarify, being antifascist necessitates being against fascism of all kinds, not just the ones who are your enemy.
Not to imply that the IDF are being fascist, but genocide is a likely outcome, whether ideologically intentional or incidental.
At the end of the day, this is a language game. Personally, I don’t care for the semantics of it all. I’m honestly quite anti-semantic.
deleted by creator
Turns out they can, you miserable anti-antifascist.
You forgot another important point: the absolute majority of Muslims will defend Palestine, no matter what they do. You risk being reprimanded in your Muslim community if you aren’t 100 % pro Palestine and often also when you aren’t pro Hamas. It has become part of their identity.