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If you read read as read and not read, you have to re-read read as read so you can read read correctly so it can then make sense
I’m so English I got it right first try 😎😎😎
I’ve never noticed, but is part of the joke with that Simpsons bit that that sentence is technically grammatically correct? Even unpossible is a real word, just outdated.
Well just learned something new about an episode I have watched probably 30 times! Thanks for that one.
Yeah, what’s missing is the punctuation and his delivery but it could be “Me? Fail English? That’s unpossible!”
Yeah, but at least you don’t have to learn whether a fridge is male or female.
How do gendered languages even deal with non-binaries?
we don’t.
And the people that try to force it by replacing the el/ella(ellos/ellas) with Elle(Elles), and for gendered words the a/o at the end of words with the letter E
Grammatical gender ≠ biological gender ≠ gender identity. 🤷♂️
That doesn’t answer the question at all lmao
It does, but I think you don’t understand what grammatical gender is.
I don’t either, care to explain?
Grammatical gender has nothing to do with social gender, it’s just a simple way to communicate that there are classes of words which belong together. Some languages have gender pairs (e.g. Masculine and Feminine words), and some languages have more genders (e.g. Latin’s Masculine, Feminine and Neutral). Some others yet have a mix of genders still in use and active, still in use exclusively for historical reasons, and completely unused (e.g. Portuguese has active use of Masculine/Feminine, but Neutral gender is only present as an inherited holdover.).
That’s why @leftzero did answer the question - insofar as to state the question was incomplete to begin with. What does it mean to “deal with non-binaries” when a language isn’t binary in its gender?
As a curiosity, the Portuguese word for “a person” is always feminine (“uma pessoa”), but for “a citizen” can be either masculine or feminine (“uma cidadã”/“um cidadão”). This is very common, and greatly illustrates how grammatical gender is largely disconnected from social gender. For an example on neutral gender, “president” takes a gendered article but is never masculine nor feminine (“um/uma presidente”).
Thank you
I love how you had negative karma because people want to use linguistics as some jab against how inclusive you are rather than just understand gendered language. Surprisingly LatinX is still gaining popularity!
Even better is people asking the difference when you’re essentially asking for a doctorate thesis in etymological linguistics in a comment on Lemmy lol.
For some very light reading:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_type_of_grammatical_genders
Gendered languages can also have a neutral gender. For example, in German masculine/feminine/neutral ‘the’ is: der/die/das
But yeah, as others said, these don’t have much to do with the gender identity. For example:
- the person → die Person (feminine)
- the girl → das Mädchen (
objectifying womenneutral)
Badly. Really badly…
In polish i havent really heard of a specific way, while polish has a neutral gender, it doesn’t feel like it makes sense with people, same way you don’t call NB people “it” in english, “ona była miła” (she was kind) feels better than “ono biło miłe” (it was kind)
The trick is to carefully check underneath the ice dispenser.
Word classes become really obvious really quickly, despite being largely impossible to communicate as an understandable rule during teaching. I.e. the more you speak a gendered language, the easier it becomes to get the gender of a word right, even if you were never exposed to said word before.
So you’re telling me, words have a “vibe”?
You could interpret it that way
People who speak English as their first language don’t even get this stuff right
I mean we kind of get it, but i would guess it would be no more than a native Italian speaker understanding how to use irregular verbs and all their tenses properly.
Source: am learning Italian, get wildly confused every now and then haha.
Welcome to English!
“What are the rules?”
(Satanic laughing)“Do you even follow the rules”
“No but if you break them in a way that doesn’t feel intentional we’ll laugh at you”
The secrèt, tu braek then on porpouseh avery thime iss.
Found Lego Yoda’s account
“Well take the rules of all the languages of the ones that conquered England and you get a pretty good idea. Oh and drop the grammatical gender, we don’t do that anymore.”
It’s easier to understand when you look at English history and realize that English is essentially three different languages (old Saxon, Norse, and Norman) badly put together (a great example of this being meats having different names than the animals they come from, since the people farming said animals spoke Saxon, but the people eating them spoke Norman), with plenty of Latin, Greek, French, and other languages sprinkled on top, all written with a limited alphabet that’s incapable of properly reflecting the pronunciation of those languages’ words.
It doesn’t help, though ,that at some point the English alphabet got simplified with things like ō becoming things like oo, without taking into account that things like oo were already being used to represent different sounds, or that at one point over a period of a few decades in the middle ages for some reason all English speakers seemed to decide to randomly switch around the pronunciation of all their vowels without changing how they wrote them (!?), or that, while all languages borrow words from others, unlike most others English for some reason doesn’t bother to adapt their orthography or grammar (a French or Catalan speaker will have no problem understanding why façade is written like that and pronounced fassade instead of fackade, for instance, but I’m sure most English speakers won’t be so lucky, especially if they write it facade… and then you’ve got things like fiancé, or the plural of radius being radii, and so on)… and you end up with the oos in book, blood, door, and boot all being pronounced differently… and, for some reason (probably the borrowing one), the one in brooch being pronounced a particular fifth different way… 🤷♂️
Book and blood have the same oo’s for me by the way. I’m from the north east. But I understand southerners will say book differently. So not only is everything you said is true we also have a crazy amount of local differences across the country with very short distances between them at times.
I tried seeing how id pronounce it if they were the same and i feel like it was roughly /ɜ/, what is it for you
Book is exactly the same as buck in my accent. So blood would be like blud. Sorry i don’t know phonetics.
Love this little bit of cheeky language history!
What’s the difference between Norse and Norman?
Norse is old Norwegian/Danish kinda.
Norman is old French.
The Normans were northmen (aka Scandinavians) that were allowed to settle in the Normandy (north west France). (They were the ruling class, the inhabitants from before continued to live there).They then adopted the French language.
I explain to people here that - in modern terms - it’s mixture of french, dutch, and welsh - you forgot the celtic /gaelic root (whatever you want to call it).
Yeah, I sort of forgot the Angle part of Anglo-Saxon, didn’t I…?
(Plus, there was probably quite a bit of Latin already there before the Norse and the Norman, at least south of Hadrian’s wall, though far from enough to make Old English a Romance language… all in all English has a very complex history.)
Buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
Police police police police. Who polices the police police? The police police police police police police.
The old man the boats.
solution
It’s ((the old) man (the boats))
Bob, while Bill had had had had had had had, had had had been more correct.
That was thoroughly thought through.
Wasn’t it, though?
I thought it was pretty thorough throughout
Though I thought it was tough on our cherished Anglo-Saxon tongue, I was taught the trouble with the th- and -ough things thoroughly.
touch and though really show the fucking weirdness of English best.
I hate that its the world language. Where did Esperanto go. Its an actually made up language, composed or many ones, easy to learn.
Language sucks. The history of English, German, damn Norwegian, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, are all so damn weird. And we literally live a few days by bike apart from each other.
Why do there need to be multiple languages really? Its such a barrier.
If everyone would just learn esperanto, we could focus on learning something actually useful, like signing (gesture language). Then we have two languages we can talk with about everyone in the world.
Everyone learning esperanto is a bigger ask than overhauling the spelling of what is already an internationally spoken language.
It really isn’t. You’re thinking about it as an anglophone, but everybody else already has to go through the effort of learning a new language - it doesn’t matter if it’s English or Esperanto. The real issue is in porting over everything to a completely different set of rules.
If no-one spoke english as a second language right now, that would be true. As it stands though, hundreds of millions have already learned english, and our global communications and trade infrastructure is based around it. Switching to a new language would mean everyone who currently speaks english needs to learn an additional language.
If we could start from scratch then a constructed language like esperanto would make more sense than using any natural language, but if we want to make a change to the system that already exists, then reforming the spelling and grammar of the language currently in use makes more sense practically.
Fixing english is not possible.
German could be fixed, just remove pronouns and all the stupid rules that make no sense.
But english makes no sense, half the words would need to be pronounced differently.
No need to pronounce them differently when you can adjust the spelling.
La fina venko!
God ruined it for us. Damn tower of babel!
Esperanto’s nice but a century old and reflects some biases of that time. If advocating auxlangs, I’d prefer one that aims for a more global balance of vocabulary sources, for example Lidepla, Globasa…
If only there was just one sign language…
I’ll just leave this here… 😈
YouTube video of someone reading this poem because reading it yourself is simply impossible.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Banquet is not nearly parquet, Which exactly rhymes with khaki.
These words do not rhyme in American English (par-kay and kak-ee). Which makes things even more challenging for English learners.
English is the Taco Bell menu of languages
I have no idea what that means, but it sounds accurate
Thou thought thoroughly. Though throughout tough times, through tenacity, 'tis taught.
This must be why I can’t learn Spanish, I understood that perfectly.
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What does it translate to literally? Perhaps there’s a more concise way to say it in English.
“even the most complicated ones” according to Google.
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Trough!
Taut and tout as well
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Aber immerhin ist die Aussprache der Buchstaben konsistent.
Aber auch nur, wenn man sauber Hochdeutsch spricht.
Auch lustig für Fremdsprachler: “für sich” und “Pfirsich”
They forgot about “throat”
What about trough lol
True
Not enough spider men in the image, haha.
