• darharrison@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Do only rich people deserve guns?

      Do the most vulnerable people in society not deserve a means of self defense or self sufficiency when you consider the demographics of lower earners?

      What is the spirit of this legislation - what kind of person is supposed to be targeted by this? What kind of person actually commits gun violence?

        • darharrison@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          That’s all well and good, maybe guns are inherently problematic. But since no one is paying attention to my wording I’ll just say it:

          Right wingers and neo-fascists commit the majority of gun violence in this country and will absolutely never give them up. They are not the poor and unsophisticated rednecks you’re told they are, they tend to be richer than average and their brand of violence is calculated. Many of them are current and former police officers and therefore won’t take their friends’ guns away just because the law says so.

          If you’re poor you’re less likely to be white and straight and therefore more likely to be harassed or killed by the aforementioned groups.

          This is not me saying that it’s time to give up on gun control laws or that we need more guns. Fewer guns in the US will mean a more peaceful country. I’m saying that laws that simply make it more expensive to buy and own guns will not deter violent people from buying them because they impose no restrictions on them.

        • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I can’t wait to see the faces of all you freedom hating dipshits when this and many other gun control efforts are appealed and fail the new Bruen standard.

          HA HA motherfuckers. Gun rights are winning no matter what you try.

            • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              If you attack the rights of Americans, you must hate freedom. I support all of our rights, for all Americans, and if you don’t then you suck.

              • prole@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                Oh look, an edgy teen who read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (or let’s be real, probably just watched the movie) for the first time.

                I bet you were inspired to be a “gonzo journalist” too, right?

                • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  LOL what a swing and a miss. I read all of Thompson’s books in the 90s, probably before you were born. Except Kingdom of Fear, that came out this century.

                  • prole@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    You think this is some kind of win lol, it just makes you look more sad and cringe.

              • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                The day a conservative talks to me about freedom and I don’t laugh in their face is the day I’ve gone completely fucking stupid.

                Conservatives have zero credibility on freedom.

                Even the Second Amendment is a liberal invention, which conservatives had to rewrite and ignore history, and even certain parts of the Second Amendment itself, in order to fetishize it as they do.

                • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I’m not a “conservative” as the neocon and trumptard groups have taken over that label with their brands of madness.

                  I’m an Independant who pretty much hates all of the politicians we have. I only vote for those who do not propose to limit any of our freedoms.

                  As an Independant and having been politically active since the prior century, I have mountains of credibility on the subject of Freedom. I was here protesting the PATRIOT Act, the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, the endless War on Terror, and the War on Drugs probably when you were a baby. I was against those wars when Obama continued them too. I voted against Trump 3 times.

                  So yeah, go on about my credibility if you want to but you have nothing on me.

            • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I am that person, and I have a great life and am proud to support all rights for all Americans. If you don’t then you suck.

              Imagine being the kind of fucking dumbass that would try to reduce any Rights that people have.

              • prole@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                Right… But only when it comes to guns. Trans people though? They don’t deserve anything.

                • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Nope, you’re making up absolute bullshit again. I said ALL RIGHTS FOR ALL AMERICANS you fucking asshole.

      • gamer@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        what kind of person is supposed to be targeted by this? What kind of person actually commits gun violence?

        Easy answer to both questions: gun owners

      • Billiam@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Most uses of firearms in the US are not self-defense. But funnily enough, if there were fewer guns… there’d be fewer need for those few self-defense cases.

            • Billiam@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              According to Gun Violence Archive in 2023 so far there have been 888 deaths due to defensive use of firearms, out of a total of 31,900 deaths from firearms from all causes. That’s 2.78%, which is about a 36:1 ratio.

              So yeah- most firearm-caused deaths in the US are not from self-defense, and it’s not even close either.

              • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                That’s a nice figure you have there. Would be a shame if somebody thought about the context of those numbers…

                Like how many defensive gun uses occur where nobody is killed because the attacker was deterred without the necessity of violence. You don’t have numbers for that because they only count deaths.

                • Billiam@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Would be a shame if somebody thought about the context of those numbers…

                  Why, when I said

                  most firearm-caused deaths in the US are not from self-defense

                  while linking to the stats to show deaths from firearms in the US, would I say anything about non-lethal defensive uses of firearms? The point was to show the ratio of self-defensive lethal uses of firearms compared to all lethal uses of firearms.

                  • theyoyomaster@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Why, when I said

                    most firearm-caused deaths in the US are not from self-defense

                    Except you didn’t. You said “uses of firearms” which also includes sport and hunting as well as self defense. What you actually said is completely false and then you just lied and pretended you said something completely different. You also posted a ridiculously biased and incomplete propaganda site as a valid source of fact, probably because any remotely academic source would give the exact opposite. Even the CDC found that defensive uses far outnumber offensive uses before gun control groups forced them to delete the peer reviewed data for political reasons.

                  • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Yeah you can go on about the semantics, but what I said was still relevant to the overall picture of the situation. Ideally the numbers of deaths from all sources would be low, but in reality they won’t ever be. When self defense can save lives, it’s worth noting its value.

                • gamer@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  Bro just stop already. You like guns, it’s a neat little hobby, and you’re getting angry because people want to end it. I get that. My hobby is retro video games/consoles, and if it turned out that they were a threat to society and people wanted to take them away, I probably wouldn’t do the sane/rational/adult thing and accept it. I’d fight to defend my god given right to own a Wii, and I’d get into angry bad faith arguments on the internet in a desperate attempt to protect my cherished pastime.

                  …but I’d be wrong, I’d be an asshole, and I probably wouldn’t realize it. I like to think that I’d have the self-awareness to not fall into that trap, since I generally consider myself to be self-aware, but also I really love this hobby and it’s a big part of my life, so it could go either way.

                  • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Nope, I will never stop. It’s not about “a hobby” it’s about the rights of all Americans.

                    If any of you had any fucking perspective, you’d realize that our rights are something that millions have died to obtain and it’s absolutely moronic to give any of them up.

      • PlantDadManGuy@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Don’t waste your time. People here aren’t looking for a rational discussion. This is the “shit on anyone who values their own safety” thread. Most of these commenters have only ever seen guns on the news, in the hands of criminals, who obviously don’t give a shit about these new laws.

        • I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I used to have to listen to my neighbor doing target practice with his semiautomatic pistol until his stepdaughter took a secret video of him beating the shit out of her mom and gave it to her teacher. He got all his most favoritest fancy boy toys taken away and now I just have to listen to him loudly fussing about it and blaming everyone but himself for it happening.

          He’s an Olympic level cunt muffin with no sense of personal responsibility or care for the safety of others. Everyone I know who owns semiautomatic weapons is pretty much the exact same garbage personality type. Or a cop.

          • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You have just described the process of making yourself prejudiced. Does it feel nice to know that you harbor prejudice against your fellow American citizens, millions of us?

            • ohitsbreadley@discuss.tchncs.de
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              1 year ago

              Waaaaaaah someone else doesn’t liiiiiike me. My heteronormative Christian toxic masculine riiiiiiiights, you’re preeeeeejudiceddddddd. Waaaaaaaahhhhh.

              That’s you. That’s what you sound like.

              Cops, white people, men, and christians have all the fucking power in the US.

              • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Interestingly enough, most gun control laws disproportionately disarm people who aren’t in the demographics you listed. In fact, historically, gun control has usually been used to disarm minorities so they can more easily be intimidated, harassed, and murdered. Which side of history are you on? The side that empowers minorities, or the side that disarms them and prevents them from choosing any path other than victimization?

                • ohitsbreadley@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  1 year ago

                  Yeah, that needs a citation. I’ve heard this point parroted time and again, but never have seen data demonstrating it.

                  Minorities are getting killed by police, whether they’re armed or not.

                  …victims were unarmed in 1 in 6 (753;16%) fatal shootings. Rates among unarmed Black and Hispanic victims were significantly higher than they were among White victims: more than 3 times as high and 45% higher, respectively.

                  BMJ, Fatal Police Shootings, 2020

                  As to your pointed question - I want to be on the side of history that puts an end to daily mass murder events. Which side of history do you want to be on?

                  • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    From 1917 to today, over 37 million people have been killed by fascist and Marxist dictators. Disarmament of the public is a favored preemptive tactic that they employ. I intend to be on the side of history that isn’t so victimized.

                    The link you shared is great evidence that our police forces, local, state, and federal, need to be disarmed. An armed police officer is significantly more dangerous than an armed civilian.

              • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Couldn’t give half a shit what you think about it. I’m enjoying my privilege here regardless.

      • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Bro, it’s a matter of fundamental fairness. The cost of gun violence must be borne by the gun industry and gun owners.

        Period.

        Not innocent civilians, not tax payers at large.

        E: only to abject morons could this comment seem unreasonable.

        • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          It’s unreasonable because you’re talking about taxing an enumerated right. Should we add a tax on social media users to cover the costs of misinformation? What about religious observance, should churchgoers pay sales tax on their tithes for the privilege of worshipping?

          Weapon ownership is a right, not a privilege. The government cannot tax a right.

          • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Is there an enumerated right to be free of taxes on enumerated rights? If not, there isn’t one.

            There are all sorts of taxes and fees associated with free speech and assembly, petitioning government, freedom of information act.

            Don’t you already pay fees for firearms permits?

            • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Fees are different than taxes. The reason for the fees (background checks, etc) are illegal per the 2nd Amendment, but they aren’t the same.

              A weapon tax is the same as a poll tax, or imagine if you had to pay a tax to exercise your 4th or 5th amendment rights.

              None of this is acceptable.

                • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Weapons taxes have always been illegal, due to their infringing nature. Where do we draw the line on the taxation of protected rights, though? Regardless of the blatantly illegal nature of the particular tax in question, it is a slippery slope that we would be wise to reverse course on before it’s too late.

      • Okkai@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Bro, this is a capitalist country. If you want something, pull yourself up by those bootstraps and go earn some money to buy it.