• Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    If the US eventually develops a working hypersonic weapon we should all make the NATO fanboys mad by calling it a cheap copy of a Chinese design.

    • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      Eh, they’ll just deny it. Same as they do with Yak-141, Mir-2 and everything else stolen from USSR

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Yes, but it’ll be extremely funny. Like how Royal Navy fans used to make fun of Admiral Kuznestov for being a skiramp carrier then had to pivot hard when the QE class was announced. They’ll go in denial but you can smell the angry cope.

        • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Have you convinced yourself brit navy fans were making fun of ski ramps?

          They started using them before the Russians did (and continue to do so today)

          So maybe you got things a little mixed up and it were the russian navy fans who were making fun of ski ramps and had to go full copioco when the Kuznetzov was announced?

          It’s ok to edit your post

          • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            So maybe you got things a little mixed up and it were the russian navy fans who were making fun of ski ramps and had to go full copioco when the Kuznetzov was announced?

            I doubt “cope slope” has the same ring in Russian as it does in English. Also, I wasn’t even alive when Kuznestov was laid down and there sure as shit weren’t many Soviet citizens shitposting on Reddit in 1982 when Kuznestov was laid down.

            QEs were announced in 2001 to be “designed for CATOBAR”, then in 2010 it was announced that POW would be build as a CATOBAR ship and QE would be retrofitted with CATOBAR. In 2012 the government backtracked due to hideous cost overruns (lmao) but 2 years is plenty of time for insufferable RN jerkoffs to have done embarrassing victory laps they wish they could take back.

            It’s ok to edit your post

            Lol.

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Victory laps after they’d been sailing their Champ Ramps for decades? You must only know some Shit Brits!

              Back in the real world everybody loves the ramps. Kuznetzov is only a laughing stock because it’s being towed or repaired more than half the time

              • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                Champ Ramps

                Have a nice jellied eel pie and enjoy watching one of your brand new carriers getting stripped for parts to fix your other brand new carriers. At least Kuznestov has the excuse of being a 40 year old ship. What’s QE’s excuse? Britain’s doesn’t have any competent ship builders left?

  • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    Has anyone else noticed that Western Liberal Armchair Generals seem to consistently just ignore hypersonic missile technology when they make proclamations about how a Great Power War would pan out?

    Like it’s just not a thing to them. And there seems to be tacit agreement among themselves to not bring it up while they suck each other off about hypothetical wars.

    But when you throw “hypersonic missile” into one of their circle jerks they all go flaccid and get really really angry with you. That’s how you know it’s a legit game changer.

      • olgas_husband@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        honest question doesn’t aircraft carriers serves mostly to bully small and underdeveloped nations?

        like, something that size and slow, seems like a easy target for any decent navy or air force

        • h3doublehockeysticks [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Yes, but also no. They’re explicitly FOR someone with a “decent navy or airforce”. Against an enemy using conventional naval forces and tactics aircraft carriers are king. You basically can’t beat them with a conventional ship.

          Three dudes in a dingy with a death wish and a big enough bomb? It’s fucked. Or at least none of its fancy defenses will do shit, if they can get past its escort. The US navy lies awake at night scared of drones and cheap SCUDs. But they’re BEGGING for someone to bring a “decent” navy against an aircraft carrier.

          • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Also want to point out that this is almost all theoretical doctrine. There hasn’t really been peer-level fleet combat since WW2 so realistically we can only guess at what kind of doctrine and weapons work and which don’t.

            • h3doublehockeysticks [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              We can only guess. But every single thing the US puts out about its doctrine, about its capacity and about its plans are about how much they can’t wait for China to try to build a modern-but-slightly-out-of-date Yamato (For some reason) so they can do the pacific campaign but better.

          • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            Against an enemy using conventional naval forces and tactics aircraft carriers are king.

            What do you mean by “conventional naval forces” here? WW2 dreadnought? Or something like this, specifically with anti-ship missiles to kill carrier groups?

          • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            Not really true, Swedes of all people proven several years ago that even farily cheap conventional submarines can be very dangerous to US carriers, and lots of navies have those.

            If you’re going for a “decent navy” plan, there is hardly any better use for your money than ordering few Kilo II subs or similar.

          • WashedAnus [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            All you need is a lot of cheap, shitty missiles on a lot of cheap, shitty platforms. Three dudes on one dinghy will get got by the .50 cals, 25mm, and Phalanxes (they learned from the Cole in the Gulf of Aden). Lots of dudes on lots of cheap, fast boats with the cheapest, most basic anti-ship missiles will take out any modern surface navy ship. The IRGCN swarm tactics will work.

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          Yes, US military is geared for that, the fact revealed by the ammunition and supply debacle in the Ukraine war.

          Carriers are used for the good old gunboat diplomacy.

          And it’s not only even hypersonic missiles that are danger to them. Quite long time ago Swedish navy proven during the NATO maneuvers that competently used non-nuclear submarine can sink the carrier too. There’s also strange coincidence between Iran proving they have working supercavitating torpedoes and USN reluctance to sail the carriers into Persian Gulf. Btw NATO still don’t have such torpedoes too while USSR had them since 1977.

          • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            Don’t they cope about those torpedoes with “oh yeah well they’re unguided and therefore bad unlike glorious USN stuff”?

            • h3doublehockeysticks [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Their cope about this one is that Iran doesn’t have a good platform for it.

              The thing is they’re not coping about supercavitating torpedoes on their own. Like I’ve never seen anyone say that’s bad or lame. The US DID try to steal the tech back in the early 2000s too. With most stuff like this the tone is a combination of pointing out the US’ superior platforms and “We can’t allow a missile gap” rhetoric to build hype for more military procurement.

              • h3doublehockeysticks [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                Like think about it. If you say the weapon is useless you can’t sell the countermeasure. So the weapon is good, but they can’t use it well yet… BUT ONE DAY THEY MIGHT, so you need to buy the newest raytheon/general dynamics//whatever toy.

              • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                Standard of proof for flaws in a NATO weapon: “I want a declassified combat report from a NATO source that explicitly states word for word what you’re saying.”

                Standard of proof for flaws in non-NATO weapons:

                • olgas_husband@lemmygrad.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  main source: racism

                  “weapon x bad because orientals are dumb”. “they dont have value for human life so their arm their soldiers with cheap things”. “this decent weapon they have is stolen superior western tech”

        • Addfwyn@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          That is the US’s MO for their wars. To be fair, that has been the vast majority of conflicts they have engaged in so it makes a certain degree of sense. They are the world’s playground bully.

      • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        The Ukraine War is showing a lot of issues with how the U.S. would take a fight to any peer country’s shores. Carriers have never been more vulnerable and there was that recent report about how we’d need to restart conscription to keep up with the casualties of such a war.

        If I were a State Department ghoul this would drive home the importance of having heavily-militarized vassal states who can act as a forward base and do as much of the dying as we can get away with. Hopefully that plan is becoming increasingly obvious to the people and leaders of those vassal states as well.

        • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          this would drive home the importance of having heavily-militarized vassal states who can act as a forward base and do as much of the dying as we can get away with.

          That’s literally what Ukraine is doing. So I’d argue the ghouls knew that as far back as 2004 when they did the Orange “revolution”

      • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        They’re never slow to proclaim that Taiwan is basically an “unsinkable aircraft carrier” to them, but still enshrine the sinkable aircraft carriers as some unbeatable game changer.

    • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      But when you throw “hypersonic missile” into one of their circle jerks they all go flaccid and get really really angry with you

      And claim Russia and China don’t Akschually have them, while Pentagon totes does

    • 🔻Sleepless One🔻@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      But when you throw “hypersonic missile” into one of their circle jerks they all go flaccid and get really really angry with you.

      You underestimate the gullibility of burgers. I’ve brought up hypersonic missiles to otherwise “apolitical” friends and they just started going on about how a patriot missile system shot one down in Ukraine and how hypersonics aren’t shit.

    • Fishroot [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      kind of like how at the beginning of the war Liz from trueanon made a comment on Russian Missile technology and people shit their pants

      She might not be a weapon specialist but her dad worked with Aeronautic wing of the US military industrial complex

      • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Liz from trueanon made a comment on Russian Missile technology and people shit their pants

        Could you elaborate, please? What did Liz say? What was the reaction?

        • Fishroot [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          It was that short episode they did when the invasion started.

          Liz basically said the war sucks and Europe doesn’t really have the capacity or the economy to fight it and that Russia has hypersonic missiles that might be far more advanced than the missiles arsenal NATO possessed

          some people really took issue with the statement basically saying that this is not needed and that they fall into the Russian imperialist narrative

    • hypercube [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      strange kinda thing to pontificate about - can’t imagine a Great Power War panning out in a way that doesn’t involve most of us getting turned into bone and ash within the hour, and then the new Great Power War will be between shirtless mutant furry dudes with big bits of rebar

  • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    Imagine if all the effort that goes into development of new tools of murder would go into development of peaceful things, line mass transit, energy storage, space exploration, agriculture

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      I think about that a lot. If humanity chose to devote its collective ingenuity towards productive things we’d probably have moved off fossil fuels by now, have space habitats, and solved aging. The level of technology we have today would absolutely make it possible for us to become a space faring civilization. Instead, we just keep fighting each other while destroying our biosphere.

      • cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Agreed. Its infuriating that currently humanity has enough technological and scientific progress by now to become a very early-stage post-scarcity society, end aging and probably most death in general, ascend to the stars, and eventually crack faster-than-light space travel and one day become advanced enough to circumvent or prevent the heat death of the universe, but for now we’re still goddamn stuck sucking Earth dry and blowing each other up for some rich cracker fucks.

  • Farman [any]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Didnt the pershing ii have a warhead that could maneuver at hypersonic speeds? While it is still a balistic missile and not a glider presumably the materials used should meet the heat requierments of a hypersonic glider? Unless it was all made up and it didnt do what it claimed?