Border control…There is a strong push amongst actual leftists to open our borders completely
Who is saying that? Right-Wing Media? There is no significant movement to completely open our southern border, nor is it something the current administration is demonstrably moving toward. What is happening is right-wing media creating a strawman in bad faith to misrepresent liberals opinions on the southern border. For example, not wanting to build a border wall doesn’t not equate wanting an open border. Just like not wanting to buy a Suburban doesn’t mean I want to walk to work. The border wall has been a thirty year grift that Republican politicians use to line the pockets of their donors through bloated contracts. Republicans have controlled the Presidency for 12 years over the last two decades. Why wasn’t it already done? If you look into it, you’ll find significant logistical issues including there being a river and terrain that isn’t friendly to construction. There are areas where an existing wall cuts off US Citizen’s farms and ranches, and where Border Control can’t easily get to. Then there’s the topic of Circular migration where preventing some migrants from leaving would double-down on your social services problem you mentioned.
Another one would be the police abolition movement. I think there is good reason why every functional country on earth has a police force.
This one again is not in any supported by any politicians or most people. “De-fund the Police” is a poor slogan any way you look at it. Yes, there are people that mean in literally. I can’t blame them. The truth is there are areas of this country where the Police act more similar to organized crime than a protection force. This is not literally true the vast majority of the time, but you can’t go 2 days without hearing about a situation where there’s corruption, or unneeded escalation that causes another civilian death. The movement I’d like to see is to Reform the Police, but that doesn’t really sound great in a protest march does it? Police should de-escalate situations, not escalate them. We hear these stories of mentally ill people who are not violent getting shot because someone calls the police to get them help, and the responding officer starts yelling with their gun out making everyone nervous and the mentally ill person gets shot. Or we see stories of overreacting to children, even arresting them for minor disobedience. We see an “us vs them” mentality coming out of the Police where they refuse to hold their own accountable. All of these things should be agreed upon universally imo. I’ve said this to some Gun-Loving friends before. Why should “he had a gun” be a reason for a cop to shoot you dead without getting your day in court? Last I checked conservatives are way into the 2nd Amendment, so this universal love for the Police, especially when they do wrong is puzzling to me.
I have a lot of leftist friends and they vehemently defend open borders. I remember all the marches during trump era that explicitly said “Immigrants are welcome here”. I can obviously only speak from my experience but I think you are underplaying the lefts lack of hard line stance on border control. They actively fight defend illegal immigrants taking American jobs. I think lax border control is a pretty common part of leftist belief in USA as of late.
Same thing goes for the defund police movement. Here are articles reflective of that sentiment at the time https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html I don’t really know how you can deny this line of thought exists in the modern political environment. Don’t blame me when all the messaging is “ACAB” and people are yelling “Abolish the police” in their marches. They often argue reforming the police is impossible and that total abolition is the only way forward.
Last I checked conservatives are way into the 2nd Amendment, so this universal love for the Police, especially when they do wrong is puzzling to me.
The two things don’t really have much to do with another. Nobody likes when the police do wrong. There are obviously nuanced situations where the right may downplay officer misconduct for narrative purposes but that doesn’t mean the right wants the police to be a mafia. There are a lot of people on the right who like police but dislike bad policing. I don’t think it’s that hard to understand.
I disagree that those two things have nothing to do with each other.
You have a constitutional right to bear arms right? If so, why does the possibility of you using that right give Carte Blanche to a Police Officer to shoot you dead and get away with it? I always hear that the right to bear arms is about standing up to tyranny… seems relevant to me. When Pro-Gun groups didn’t fight for Philando Castile it became crystal clear they are all full of shit.
I can’t take you seriously when you say “leftist” it’s straight out of right-wing propaganda. So I doubt you have “leftist friends” at all. You’re even saying the quiet part out loud. Trump immediately banned everybody from coming into the country from Muslim countries regardless of the reason. I don’t think you understand how difficult the Immigration process is. These people spent all the time and money to come here, were approved and were literally on planes when this happened. That’s some heartless xenophobic bullshit and idk how you could support that.
Migrant workers don’t take American jobs. This has been proven so much it’s not even much of a current Republican talking point. Southern states that have enacted strict immigration laws ended up having farms with no one to harvest as Americans didn’t want those jobs, for they pay that was offered at least. If you’re conflating this with people who immigrate legally taking jobs, that’s a different issue and American companies are the ones you should be mad at. It’s not as simple as you think, often it costs the company a lot and it would have been cheaper to hire an American.
Those protest movements have no elected power. This is a situation where systemic issues in policing really present two different outcomes. If your community was treated the same as the communities that these people are apart of, I’d wager the rhetoric would be similar or even more violent. Anti-Police rhetoric on the right was rampant in the 90s. Current conservatives care more about treating people they don’t like bad, so they are Pro Police every time an incident happens with a black person. We all should be calling for reform when a cop becomes Judge, Jury, and, executioner just because they think the person has a weapon. How 2nd Amendment advocates aren’t just as upset at the police as the community that is victimized by them is extremely telling imo.
You are easily the most bad faith person I’ve had a discussion with on here so far. I’m just expressing my opinion and you are accusing me of faking having leftist friends for some reason despite knowing that a lot of people hold the views I discussed. Not really worth responding to your novels, sorry.
I’ve run into you in other threads. Your expressed opinions are all conspiracy theories or right wing talking points. Your account is a couple days old. There’s nothing showing me you aren’t a troll. And if you’re not it makes no difference if everything you post is the same. 🤷♂️
Who is saying that? Right-Wing Media? There is no significant movement to completely open our southern border, nor is it something the current administration is demonstrably moving toward. What is happening is right-wing media creating a strawman in bad faith to misrepresent liberals opinions on the southern border. For example, not wanting to build a border wall doesn’t not equate wanting an open border. Just like not wanting to buy a Suburban doesn’t mean I want to walk to work. The border wall has been a thirty year grift that Republican politicians use to line the pockets of their donors through bloated contracts. Republicans have controlled the Presidency for 12 years over the last two decades. Why wasn’t it already done? If you look into it, you’ll find significant logistical issues including there being a river and terrain that isn’t friendly to construction. There are areas where an existing wall cuts off US Citizen’s farms and ranches, and where Border Control can’t easily get to. Then there’s the topic of Circular migration where preventing some migrants from leaving would double-down on your social services problem you mentioned.
This one again is not in any supported by any politicians or most people. “De-fund the Police” is a poor slogan any way you look at it. Yes, there are people that mean in literally. I can’t blame them. The truth is there are areas of this country where the Police act more similar to organized crime than a protection force. This is not literally true the vast majority of the time, but you can’t go 2 days without hearing about a situation where there’s corruption, or unneeded escalation that causes another civilian death. The movement I’d like to see is to Reform the Police, but that doesn’t really sound great in a protest march does it? Police should de-escalate situations, not escalate them. We hear these stories of mentally ill people who are not violent getting shot because someone calls the police to get them help, and the responding officer starts yelling with their gun out making everyone nervous and the mentally ill person gets shot. Or we see stories of overreacting to children, even arresting them for minor disobedience. We see an “us vs them” mentality coming out of the Police where they refuse to hold their own accountable. All of these things should be agreed upon universally imo. I’ve said this to some Gun-Loving friends before. Why should “he had a gun” be a reason for a cop to shoot you dead without getting your day in court? Last I checked conservatives are way into the 2nd Amendment, so this universal love for the Police, especially when they do wrong is puzzling to me.
I have a lot of leftist friends and they vehemently defend open borders. I remember all the marches during trump era that explicitly said “Immigrants are welcome here”. I can obviously only speak from my experience but I think you are underplaying the lefts lack of hard line stance on border control. They actively fight defend illegal immigrants taking American jobs. I think lax border control is a pretty common part of leftist belief in USA as of late.
Same thing goes for the defund police movement. Here are articles reflective of that sentiment at the time https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html I don’t really know how you can deny this line of thought exists in the modern political environment. Don’t blame me when all the messaging is “ACAB” and people are yelling “Abolish the police” in their marches. They often argue reforming the police is impossible and that total abolition is the only way forward.
The two things don’t really have much to do with another. Nobody likes when the police do wrong. There are obviously nuanced situations where the right may downplay officer misconduct for narrative purposes but that doesn’t mean the right wants the police to be a mafia. There are a lot of people on the right who like police but dislike bad policing. I don’t think it’s that hard to understand.
I disagree that those two things have nothing to do with each other.
You have a constitutional right to bear arms right? If so, why does the possibility of you using that right give Carte Blanche to a Police Officer to shoot you dead and get away with it? I always hear that the right to bear arms is about standing up to tyranny… seems relevant to me. When Pro-Gun groups didn’t fight for Philando Castile it became crystal clear they are all full of shit.
I can’t take you seriously when you say “leftist” it’s straight out of right-wing propaganda. So I doubt you have “leftist friends” at all. You’re even saying the quiet part out loud. Trump immediately banned everybody from coming into the country from Muslim countries regardless of the reason. I don’t think you understand how difficult the Immigration process is. These people spent all the time and money to come here, were approved and were literally on planes when this happened. That’s some heartless xenophobic bullshit and idk how you could support that.
Migrant workers don’t take American jobs. This has been proven so much it’s not even much of a current Republican talking point. Southern states that have enacted strict immigration laws ended up having farms with no one to harvest as Americans didn’t want those jobs, for they pay that was offered at least. If you’re conflating this with people who immigrate legally taking jobs, that’s a different issue and American companies are the ones you should be mad at. It’s not as simple as you think, often it costs the company a lot and it would have been cheaper to hire an American.
Those protest movements have no elected power. This is a situation where systemic issues in policing really present two different outcomes. If your community was treated the same as the communities that these people are apart of, I’d wager the rhetoric would be similar or even more violent. Anti-Police rhetoric on the right was rampant in the 90s. Current conservatives care more about treating people they don’t like bad, so they are Pro Police every time an incident happens with a black person. We all should be calling for reform when a cop becomes Judge, Jury, and, executioner just because they think the person has a weapon. How 2nd Amendment advocates aren’t just as upset at the police as the community that is victimized by them is extremely telling imo.
You are easily the most bad faith person I’ve had a discussion with on here so far. I’m just expressing my opinion and you are accusing me of faking having leftist friends for some reason despite knowing that a lot of people hold the views I discussed. Not really worth responding to your novels, sorry.
I’ve run into you in other threads. Your expressed opinions are all conspiracy theories or right wing talking points. Your account is a couple days old. There’s nothing showing me you aren’t a troll. And if you’re not it makes no difference if everything you post is the same. 🤷♂️
I’m someone with different opinions as yourself. That’s ok. Move along.