There it is, plain as day. He literally just admitted to his crimes.
He was declaring the 2016 election as rigged too, right up until the point he “won” it.
Oh, no… he still claimed it was rigged even after he won because he lost the popular election/ didn’t win in a landslide.
Well, he claimed he won in a landslide in 2016 up until Biden won by that exact electoral margin against him in 2020.
Funny how his perspective changed just like that.
Yup. That one was funny. According to Trump, Hillary Clinton personally helped 3 million illegal immigrants vote in California and that’s what gave her the popular vote win.
Now, if Hillary was able to sneak 3 million illegal immigrants into voting booths undetected but only did this in safe blue California, then she deserved to lose the election. A few thousand of those (imaginary) immigrants voting in swing states would have given her the election.
And he called the 2016 GOP primaries rigged also when he lost one. Everything Trump loses is rigged. If he wins, but doesn’t win by as much as he wanted to, then it’s rigged also.
At this point, it wouldn’t surprise me if he thought merely having a non-Trump name on the ballot counted as “rigging.” Trump’s ideal ballot would be “do you want (a) Trump for President or (b) to be imprisoned for life?”
It is all projection, isn’t it?
Are you aware of how many times Democrats keep repeating the ‘election was stolen’ in 2016? Or parroting ‘illegitimate president?’ Election denial is 100% bi partisan
Nobody on the left is claiming that actual votes got cast illegally. What happened in 2016 is that Russia flooded social media with posts trying to influence American voters. Whether it worked or how much it worked is up for debate.
This is more “Russia meddled” than “Russia stole the election” though. Democrats accepted that Trump won in 2016. They didn’t try to challenge the election and certainly didn’t violently storm the Capitol in January 2017 to try to keep Trump from taking office.
But the few democrats you are referring to didn’t storm the capital~
Nice try both sidesing a coup btw 😘
He was still declaring it rigged afterwards. Probably just softening people up for 2020.
Wow he really did say it.
If he isn’t found guilty I’ll lose any faith I have remaining in our justice system.I mean. There’s always been a very different justice system for the rich v poor. I’m not expecting much. Slap on the wrist, a little community service that he can pawn off or do in some cushy way. Maybe I’m setting my hopes low, so as to avoid the fall of it does actually turn out that way.
Exactly what I’m afraid of. Something like that will not deter anyone else that’s smarter than him to try again. I really hate to say it, but he needs to be made an example of. He’s admitting the crime he’s accused of doing. And he’s a former president.
It’s a scary time for the U.S.
Home of the brave tho, right? Right? RIGHT?!?
Unfortunately I think he’s America’s Sulla. Sulla didn’t destroy the Roman Republic, but he fatally wounded it by demonstrating that it was too weak to stop someone like him. All it took was someone more power hungry following in his footsteps to destroy the Republic.
Usually rich people get out of stuff by hiring smart lawyers and listening to what they say, though.
I would caution you against having any expectations.
Certainly does feel like a pivotal time in the republic doesn’t it?
It’s interesting a little to me, because growing up everyone has known the system sucks ass. But until Trump I don’t think anyone realized how it sucked ass in a different way. There’s no shadow government. There’s no Big Plan. No one is pulling strings. It’s just assholes being assholes. And whoever has the most assholes in seats is the current winner.
It’s King of the Hill for people that peaked during highschool.
All these alt right morons are living in a fantasy.
There’s no shadow government. There’s no Big Plan. No one is pulling strings. It’s just assholes being assholes.
I had the sense before the 2016 election that even some on the left kinda had this impression. That somehow Hilary would be automatically elected, or that there was some mechanism to prevent someone like Trump from getting in there or doing much damage.
It’s been made very clear to me that nothing much is preventing the country from being run straight into the ground provided the person doing so is elected president. There are no guardrails. The country isn’t baby proofed in any way. Whoever you put in there is literally and figuratively working with live ammo, and the American public will not be safe from them.
Exactly.
There are no guardrails. The country isn’t baby proofed in any way. Whoever you put in there is literally and figuratively working with live ammo.
Well yeah, the whole set up is based on the premise that the populace wouldn’t elect an idiot.
Have you considered the possibility that any deep state actors (that may or may not exist) actually crave the type of destabilizing force that Trump represents?
Counter to the fairlytales, a country divided is a country easily ruled.
If you can sew enough division, using fear as a weapon is much easier.
What better pawn to install as President than Donald fucking Trump?
They knew his debts. They knew the people who had dirt on him. They knew he was incompetent. They knew he was easily controlled. They knew he was for sale.
This isn’t rocket science and I’m pretty sure history will eventually prove me right. He’s a weak little piece of shit. A dog that does as he’s told by his masters, including the current line to tow in his definitely 100% real legal dramas.
It’s all theatre. Barely better acted than American wrestling.
Your former president is simultaneously fighting to stay out of prison whilst doing his best to run for president again? Please.
Vince McMahon would be proud.
deleted by creator
The big problem is that he still has influence over people that will cause trouble in streets if something happens to him. Not different to that time Mexico had to let go of El Chapo’s son because cartel soldiers started causing trouble to get him back. Any other nobody could have their rights violated left and right and no one would stand up for them. If the government tries to do something and then has an uprising it proves they don’t have a monopoly on violence and that could have other knock on political effects.
Case in point why solidarity is so powerful and unions are fought tooth and nail. These alt right guys are just too far in to deal with the normal tools of the state.
Eh I’m not worried about the cosplay weekend warriors. The ones that were on Capital Hill are being punished. If they try anything again they’ll be punished again.
It’s all talk.Eh I’m not worried about the cosplay weekend warriors
I mean I don’t want to give them too much credibility, but they can still cause a lot of pain if they wanted too. Especially if they turn to stochastic terrorism.
If they do, and I’m sure a rare few might, they won’t succeed. Have you ever seen the videos they made before Jan 6th? Half of them had their moms with them, the rest were older idiots that’ve never done anything else in thier lives.
There won’t be a civil war from these people.
But they do need to be shut down so there isn’t a next generation wave of them.
Too bad - lock him up. And anyone that wants to start some shit over it.
I honestly think the bigger worry is our complete inability to have any control over the police in this country combined with what the average policeman thinks of Trump.
What did he say though? In the text quotes he just says he decided that the election was rigged, he doesn’t say that he knew those claims were false.
there’s already a lot of evidence showing that he was told by multiple people that it was not rigged including his own election security team
He is the most popular Republican candidate for a reason. They love this shit.
You can’t be a republican without being some combination of stupid or evil.
And I don’t just mean stupid colloquially as “people I don’t like” but more specifically as “incapable of looking at facts and drawing reasonable conclusions from them.”
It’s weirder than that. I know people who are generally very good at reasoning based on facts except with Donnie they don’t. When caught out in a lie, he explains it with an even more unbelievable lie and they just repeat it.
It’s really just as simple as tribalistic zero sum game politics. They want to damage the other side at whatever cost. It’s fueled by hate whipped into a frenzy by social media because it makes a lot money for social media companies to have people so engaged in hating others.
I used to be a republican, back before GW Bush & Cheney sent me off to Iraq to go look for yellowcake lol. I also have never used Facebook, Instagram or any other social media platforms outside of Lemmy (formerly Reddit). All of that said, the transformation of the R party into what it is today has been pretty disturbing for me. Frankly it reminds me of the fanatic suicide bomber Islamic extremism you see in the Middle East and elsewhere.
Oh, so he confessed. Can we skip to the “lock him up” phase now?
We still need the trial, but I think he should have his bond revoked and await trial in jail.
This is America. So no. Republicans get to do what they want.
Didn’t he also talk about how “all those J6 people were treated very badly” and he would “look into” pardoning Enrique Tarrio and others?
Tarrio was convicted of seditious conspiracy.
18 U.S.C. § 2384 states:
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
Suggesting the possibility of a pardon for someone convicted of seditious conspiracy is “giving aid or comfort to the enemies [of the US Constitution].”
Trump is ineligible to hold office, per the 14th Amendment, Section Three.
Trump’s quote there happened before Tarrio’s conviction, otherwise I would love for you to be right.Edit: my mistake, it did not.
Meet The Press aired less than 24 hours ago, that’s where he said this.
TL;DR: Trump’s quote there happened after Tarrio’s conviction.
Full context:
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about potential pardons because a lot of your supporters are wondering about that. Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio was sentenced to 22 years in jail. Now that you know what the sentence is, 22 years in jail, will you give him a pardon?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Are you ready?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will you give other Proud Boys a pardon?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I don’t know him. I never met him. I never heard of him until I started reading this stuff.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will you pardon him?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
But I want to tell you: He and other people have been treated horribly. Antifa killed people, and those guys didn’t even get tried in many cases.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There’s no evidence Antifa was there.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
They put these guys in jail for 17, 18, and 22 years. They didn’t kill anybody. Some of them never even went into the Capitol. Some of them weren’t even in D.C. And they got a 22- or a 17-year sentence. 16, 18, 15, 22.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, more than 1,000 people have been charged, Mr. President.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Yeah. 1,000 people. How many people — let me ask you this. How many people were charged for destroying Portland? How many people were charged for burning down the police precinct and the courthouse in Minneapolis?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will you give him a pardon? Will you pardon him, though? Will you pardon him?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I’d certainly look at it. I’d look at that. And I’d look at all the other people that have suffered, the J6 people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. President, let me ask one final question –
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
People — people that went there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– and let’s move on to foreign policy.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
That didn’t even go into the building have suffered gravely. And you have to say one system of justice, right? You take a look at what’s gone on in Portland. They burned down the city. The city is in shambles to this day. The store owners don’t even rebuild storefronts anymore. They put up two-by-fours.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to move on to foreign policy, Mr. President.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
But why do you do that?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me just ask you one more question.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Why do you give me a horrible question and then you don’t let me answer it? You’re off to a bad start, I’m telling you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. President, I just — I want to make sure we get to talk about foreign policy as well.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
No, but I don’t mind. I have all the time in the world.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You do? Okay.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I have all the time in the world. Why is it that the people, Antifa people, and very bad people, that burned down Portland, burned down Minneapolis, burned down so much — and New York City, what they did in New York City — and they were barely charged? And, yet, the people in Washington in some cases never even went into the building. They’ve been persecuted. They’ve been persecuted.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, the people who were charged on January 6th, some of them were charged with sedition. Some of them were charged for violating the Capitol —
**FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
And we’ll take a look at everything. But many of these people have been persecuted, what they’ve done to them.**
KRISTEN WELKER:
They — your supporters? Your supporters, you’re talking about?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
And they didn’t do this to the people that burned down — you take a look at Portland. It’s like a burned-down hulk of a city, including the federal courthouse.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. President, if you were re-elected, would you pardon yourself?
Cool cool, my mistake. Thank you for the correction.
(As an aside, for anyone outside of Oregon, fyi, Portland is not burned down. I rode through it last week. It’s very much not burned down. It has some problems, but the problems you see on the street are caused by income inequality and lack of free health care, not people with the courage to fight for civil rights.)
I live here and have done so for over 20 years, so thank you for your efforts toward clarity. To further elucidate, the only burning of property during the so-called riots was largely caught on camera from multiple individuals and clearly showed “police” setting fires — not to mention inciting (or attempting to incite) violence. Secondly, it’s not a lack of free health care, nor is the solution that simple, but you are correct in that the problem is certainly not those like myself with the courage to fight for my fellow citizens’ rights as human beings.
There are definitely people out there who are broke because they had to get surgery/medicine and couldn’t afford it.
And?
I literally work like three blocks away from the federal courthouse and everything over there is fine. We have some homeless people that live in the area, and the antifa idiots did destroy a few statues, but other than that it’s pretty much back to normal.
Of course normal today means that your downtown has no retail anymore but that’s another story.
I upvoted you for your retraction - and I appreciate your making me think about it and prove it. When was Tarrio convicted? I had to look it up - Sep 5. Did Welker actually refer to his conviction? I had to look it up - yes.
So, yes, it was “easy” to prove, but I had to do work to prove it, and I am better informed because of it.
For that, you have my sincere thanks.
This exchange is the most absurd thing I’ve read all year.
Oh man, 60 seconds of this interview and I’m already facepalming. This guy is still full of “just make shit up, doesn’t matter if I lie about everything”
Also lovely how he says that he didn’t have a disaster in Afghanistan, as he was the one that put all that in motion.
I’m honestly unsure if I want trump back in office. At least if trump comes back we’ll destroy the world for sure and just have it done with. Can’t say that this timeline is the one I’d like to live in, waiting for loads of wars to start overclimate change while we do nothing to stop it, seeing everyone blame everyone but themselves, and nobody taking responsibility anymore… fuck this timeline, give the presidency to Trump, hell start world war
2343 I think and just kill everybody and make lots of monies
I agree that he ought to be disqualified from holding office per the 14th Amendment, however I doubt it will apply.
U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
I’ve bolded the parts which might apply to Trump.
executive or judicial officer of any State
He was an Executive, but not of any State, so he doesn’t meet that condition.
officer of the United States
“Officer of the United States” has an established meaning in the constitution as, essentially, “officers appointed by the President” (with approval from the Senate).
U.S. Const. art. II, § 2, cl. 2:
He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
If we take this list to be exhaustive, then Officers must be appointed by the President and are not elected by the public, therefore the President himself is excluded from the definition of “Officers of the United States”.
The Supreme Court has followed this reasoning in the past.
United States v. Mouat, 124 U.S. 303 (1888)
Unless a person in the service of the government, therefore, holds his place by virtue of an appointment by the President or of one of the courts of justice or heads of departments authorized by law to make such an appointment, he is not, strictly speaking, an officer of the United States.
And Justice Roberts has used this reasoning more recently.
Free Enterprise Fund v. Public Company Accounting Oversight Bd., 561 U.S. 477 (2010):
The diffusion of power carries with it a diffusion of accountability. The people do not vote for the “Officers of the United States.” Art. II, §2, cl. 2. They instead look to the President to guide the “assistants or deputies … subject to his superintendence.”
And finally
having previously taken an oath
The oath taken by those Congress and Officers of the United States (and all others listed in U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3) is a different oath to the one sworn by the President, and it may be argued that the oath U.S. Const. amend. XIV refers to is explicitly that sworn by members of Congress and other Officers, not the Presidential Oath of Office. (Although this to me is the weakest part of the arguement.)
While I completely agree that by any reasonable standard Trump ought to be disqualified from holding office per the 14th Amendment, it is unfortunately not a reasonable standard that he will be held to. It is this Supreme Court’s standard.
tl;dr: 14A S3 doesn’t apply to a current or former President, because that office is somehow excluded from the list of offices for which an oath must have been taken.
That is such a technical reading, and it seems ridiculous that 14A S3 was written specifically to exclude Presidents, as though they wanted to make sure that an Anti-Constitutional President could hold office again, while making sure to exclude every other single office available to be held, elected or appointed, in the entire rest of the federal government and the entirety of every state government.
And you’re right, you fucker. Fuck you for making me know this. I mean that with the utmost respect.
Well lets see how that holds up in court. Some states are filling a law suit saying that because jan 6th trump can’t be on ballot. And these suira are mostly Republican filed
It also says to hinder or delay, if that would be taken litteraly then most politicians would be barred from holding office.
… or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay …
“By force” is the necessary method of hindering or delaying.
Ah yes, another fact-based hipshot from a non-lawyer. Bullseye.
“And furthermore, I did shoot that man on Fifth Avenue.”
And furthermore, Susan, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to learn that all four of them habitually smoke marijuana cigarettes…
REEFERS
I smoke two joints in the morning…
I smoke two joints at night…
I smoke two joints in the afternoon, It makes me feel alright.
It would be actually wild if he implicated himself in an actual murder.
ANTIFA SHIT MY PANTS!!!
Haven’t we been hearing for weeks that he was planning an “advice of counsel” defense in his criminal trials?
Fani Willis and Jack Smith will welcome this admission - and doubtless make use of it in court.
The screams you hear are emanating from his current group of lawyers, tearing their hair out and rending their garments as they are forced once more to scramble to try to do damage control in coming up with a legal strategy - and fearing for the future of their own law licenses.
I might be giving him too much credibility because it’s not like Trump is a fine strategist or anything, but at this point I think he knows he’s fucked in court anyway. He already lost this battle so to speak, so I doubt he’ll make any sort of effort to help his own case. He’ll do what he does best and stir up shit as fast as possible, making the biggest circus imaginable with whatever he can, and insulting the judges and admitting to his crimes is definitely a signature wtf play of his. Another angle is that the case is lost, he knows, and Trump never admit defeat, he’ll just double down and pretend it’s not a crime because he did it on purpose.
Surely at this point there aren’t really any expectations of Trump’s lawyers. They just have to file documents for him and tell him when to show up where. Then after a few weeks you just tag out.
The corrupt GA GOP are going to remove Fani Willis. They’ve invented a committee specifically to do just that.
Jack Smith isn’t going to be able to do any lasting damage. Everything about Trump is already known, and Trump’s racist jug-hooting base is sticking with him. Findings in a trial will be meaningless for them.
Unless he actually gets sentenced to real prison - which he won’t - nothing about this matters.
Your wish casting is kind of pathetic
This is going to help everyone around Trump walk, because they can point to him taking full accountability, Meadows Eastman, Giuliani can get out of it. And Trump himself will never see any consequences either.
RICO case in Georgia is much more difficult, which is why the GOP down there have created a committee to remove any prosecutors they want. So, that’s how that will get killed off.
I know
Putin told you too. Traitor
This is why he should have get a gag order from a judge. He already is preparing his base that he will lose in court: “yes, I did it, but anyone would do the same, because all is rigged against me”
He’s doing this to try and prove he didn’t know he lost the election.
I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think that will work.
I think he’s said on tape that he knows he lost the election, so I’d love to see that legal defense
That makes sense knowing the way he went on about it.
Did anyone watch the clip, or just reacting to the headline? Immediately after he said that, they return to the commentator who says there isn’t much in that statement that can be used by prosecutors
I’ll leave that decision up to the prosecutors.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. The exchange is:
“Were you calling the shots?”
“As to whether or not I thought the election was rigged, yeah it was my decision.”Trump is being charged with conspiracy to prevent the election results from being certified. He’s not being charged with lying about election rigging. He can flat out say “yeah I knew I lost I just wanted to lie to people”. He’s not obligated to tell the truth and it’s not why he’s in legal trouble.
He would need to have said something about creating a plan to delay or prevent the certification and that lying about the election being rigged was part of that. Prosecutors claim they have this evidence anyways.
It’s already been established that Donnie knew he was lying and that lying about the election was a key part of the plot to overturn the election.
So now he’s admitted to ordering a key part of the plot and he doesn’t have any legitimate reason to have done so.
His lawyers have to argue either that he was lying now, or that he was in control of the lies about election, but was somehow unaware of the purpose for lying.
twisty never even mentioned that part. The reason the commentator said what they did because Trump didn’t say thing thing the headline said he did. If he did, people would be right to point out that admitting to the crime is probably important in trying to prove he did the crime to a legal standard.
Well damn, you’re right. Not much meat on that bone, changes nothing. I was so hoping he really fucked up this time, laid down something the prosecution could bite on.
“Did you decide the election was rigged? Ultimately, were you the sole arbiter of that decision?”
“Yes.”
And like the man said, if Trump was dumb enough to blame his lawyers, he’d open up a 50-gallon drum of evidence against him.
Cannot wrap my head around how obviously stupid this man is, yet slick as hell with his non-statements. Only thing I can figure is that he’s so well practiced in legal trouble that it just rolls off the tongue.
He goes onto say the prosecution can’t do much with it because we’ve already proved Trump’s centrality to January 6th and people referred to him as the boss. It’s another piece of evidence that they may or may not use but don’t need to prove that Trump was the one pulling the strings and making things happen. This is in direct contradiction to him saying that he just listened to his lawyers, did what they said, and thus didn’t break the law.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“It was my decision, but I listened to some people,” Trump told NBC’s “Meet the Press” in an interview that aired Sunday.
“I was listening to different people, and when I added it all up, the election was rigged,” Trump told Kristen Welker in the interview, again pushing the false claim as he seeks the 2024 Republican nomination for president.
He pressured Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and another official to “recalculate” the numbers and “find” enough votes to let him win.
The House select committee that investigated Trump’s actions in the lead-up to the January 6, 2021, insurrection argued that the evidence shows he actively worked to “transmit false Electoral College ballots to Congress and the National Archives” despite concerns among his lawyers that doing so could be unlawful.
Trump is facing four charges in Smith’s case, including obstruction of an official proceeding and conspiracy to defraud the United States.
Trump was also charged in a sweeping Georgia indictment accusing him of being the head of a “criminal enterprise” to overturn the 2020 election.
The original article contains 471 words, the summary contains 176 words. Saved 63%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
