• Xhieron@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    This is very upsetting to me–more as a point of principle than in fact–but I appreciate that it doesn’t bother younger generations at all. I just had a small argument with my 11 year old about how not-a-big-deal-who-cares this is, and it basically ended with us agreeing to disagree since it’ll be his problem and his kids’ problem.

    And the problem is normalizing the notion that an OS doesn’t need to include a non-subscription word processor. The entire point of this move is to shift the OS Overton Window in favor of consumers accepting and expecting that features like word processors, spreadsheets, etc., should be installed separately and paid for on a subscription basis despite previous iterations of the same software being feature complete on install and purchased at a set, non-recurring fee.

    WordPad hasn’t been anybody’s first choice for a word processor in years, but it was included with Windows and did the bare minimum for unsophisticated users. Now we’re entering an era in which those users will as a matter of course buy off-the-shelf computers that come pre-installed without WordPad, but rather with a trial of Office Fuck-You-Pay-Me Edition. Those users may well discover that after their first six months with their new computer (that has made Microsoft more money selling their data than they paid for it), they suddenly get a pop-up informing them that their trial is up and MS wants $99.99 to release the documents they’re holding hostage.

    It’s a step backwards for consumers in general, so even for the sophisticated of us who are least likely to be personally affected by this change, there’s definitely cause for alarm.

    • BananaTrifleViolin@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I get where you’re coming from but I think you’re overstating the impact in this day and age. If this had been 1995 it’d be a big deal. Now it’s rediculously easy to install any alternative you like for free.

      Libre Office is an entire free fully features office suite.

      I’m less bothered about removing WordPad than I am about Microsoft advertising and pre-installing it’s products in Windows - they force Edge on people, they push OneDrive and preinstall a preview of Office. That’s the real problem - not losing WordPad.

      At one point Anti-Trust / Anti-monopoly regulators globally punished Microsoft for pushing Internet Explorer to consumers and for a long time in Europe had to offer a choice of Browsers to download on new Windows installs. Now it’s allowed to get away with abusing it’s dominant position to force it’s products on consumers.

      • SargTeaPot@lemmy.nz
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        1 year ago

        Or you know, google docs is a thing which is free and imo works better than word

        • MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          A web browser is not a word processor no matter how much they tart it up. If the thing isn’t saving a file to my local drive that is in a common format It’s not worth putting your effort into.

          So many kids are going to grow up not having the concept where data lives and what the failure modes are.

    • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      I’d like to normalize the notion that an OS shouldn’t include any application software except for a browser you can use to install other things. Let people pick what they want to use and install it themselves.

      • Programmer Belch@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 year ago

        Better yet, the OS should just include a desktop environment with simple utilities and a package manager to install the applications you want. It will make users less likely to run into malware while searching for the programs in the web

      • orbitz@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        Wasn’t there an anti trust or monopoly suite against Microsoft for bundled IE back in the day? Funny how times change, though I agree it’s not easy to get a preferred browser without one. Mean it never was overly simple but they were on so many CDs mailed out back then. Think it has to do with some IE and Windows integration too so not just cause they bundled it.

        • Nougat@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          The problem with IE4 is that it was designed in such a way that it was deeply integrated into the operating system, such that it could not be uninstalled.

          It’s completely reasonable now to ship an operating system without a browser, as long as there’s some kind of “app store” or “package manager” through which a user can install whatever browser they want (provided it’s available through said store, of course).

      • schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
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        1 year ago

        I think a file manager, text editor and command prompt are pretty essential too. And when you’ve added those, where exactly is the limit where it becomes “application software”?

        • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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          1 year ago

          I don’t have an answer for that, but I know Wordpad is definitely not essential and I doubt anyone would use it if it didn’t come with Windows

      • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I think it’s worth separating the two related but distinct concepts of what is a part of the operating system itself (for example, the actual file manager) and what is pre-installed or bundled with the operating system (games like Minesweeper).

        I agree with you that a rich text editor definitely shouldn’t be part of the OS. But should it be a bundled part that ships with the desktop environment, the way Windows/MacOS/Android/iOS/ChromeOS all come with photo library software, basic image editors, media players, browser, email client, etc.? These applications aren’t strictly necessary to use or maintain the system itself, so maybe they shouldn’t have some kind of privileged use of the OS’s functionality, but there’s no harm in bundling in the installation defaults.

        I don’t think a rich text editor is an important enough function to necessarily be preinstalled with the OS, but I can see an argument, at least. There’s a reason why Windows shipped with one since the beginning, and why MacOS and KDE and Gnome each have a default that very few people actually use regularly.

      • johnthedoe@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        The cost of the full Mac apps and OS is in the cost of the hardware. At least it’s one upfront cost. Surely the way windows is going can’t be popular or sustainable.

        • Aatube@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          piracy theme intensifies
          Office is one of the easiest things to pirate. It 1. is very popular 2. has an official mass-activation way that can be easily exploited. I suspect we may have a spy in there
          Or, y’know, just use LibreOffice with the tabs setting and contextual groups if you can afford experimental features
          or if you still hate the UI just use WPS instead, who cares that it’s awful and from China you don’t have to pay

          Also, why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??

          • TrustingZebra@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??

            Main reason would be full compatibility with Office documents.

          • danielton@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
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            1 year ago

            Also, why would you even get Word or PowerPoint on macOS?? Excel I understand but these two??

            Because Word and Powerpoint are what they know.

          • anon_water@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Let me clarify what I meant. I am saying that we pay for the OS which includes applications on both Mac and Windows. Only Mac gives us a free suite of office applications.

    • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      Tbh I use Notepad way more than anything for note making.
      If it needs to be formatted, OneNote is free to use and can be saved in any cloud (if there is a shortcut like OneDrive or Dropbox in the Windows explorer)
      If it needs to be free and not very sophisticated, I’d look around for a markdown based editor.

      If all of that fails, I will use Word.
      Never used Wordpad in 15 years (of 24 years of existence) except while trying to open word but Windows suggesting Wordpad first.

      • ares35@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        i use wordpad a lot for viewing docs (loads faster, uncluttered ui). occasionally writing them… and more than once instead of notepad for a text file (on a system without a notepad alternative available) because i needed more features.

        i have a few clients that use wordpad as their ‘word processor’, lack of spelling check be damned.

        microsoft must have run out of excuses for specifically not including one in it, seeing how recent windows has spell check baked-in to the os itself. so instead of losing a few dozen sales of office home and student or 365 by making wordpad just a little bit better for those who use it, they’re gonna be the assholes and take it out completely and push everyone to the damn cloud app or a 365 sub. fk 'em.

    • Bobby Turkalino@lemmy.yachts
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      1 year ago

      Google Docs is free and has basically become the standard word processor for the “unsophisticated users” you’re worried about. It essentially comes with your OS because you only need a browser to use it.

      I think your kid and his children will survive.

      • angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        Making things in Google Docs is fine, but last I checked Google Docs just sucked at opening anything that wasn’t already a GDoc. LibreOffice Writer sometimes has formatting errors opening Word Docs, but it does a miles better job than Google Docs.

        Also, I hate how normalized everything using the cloud (aka “Someone Else’s Hard Drive”) for no reason is.

    • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Then they ask their grandson or work it dept what they should do and both will answer libre office is free

    • ebits21@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      It’s too bad Linux isn’t more normalized. For those very simple users (and for the more sophisticated) Linux is probably much better than Windows at this point.

      No ads, free software, updates can be very simple and stable, less security issues.

    • funchords@lemmy.sdf.org
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      1 year ago

      This is very upsetting to me–more as a point of principle than in fact–but I appreciate that it doesn’t bother younger generations at all.

      I am in a support group with over 100 senior citizens in it. Getting a file with a *.rtf extension used to be a thing, but it hasn’t been a thing in years. I do get *.doc and *.docx files so they’re probably getting lured into Office like you said even before Wordpad is removed.