having a moment here in gnome
to everyone pointing out that this is for touchpads;
a: it’s awful on that too
b: note the mouse in the example given
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This is an affront to nature
Looking at you Apple who has this option on by default.
This is actually pretty nice for touchpad. It’s atrocious for scrollwheel though.
And the magic mouse famously doesn’t have a scroll wheel.
I use unnatural for both. It feels like inverted mode for FPS for me. I blame GoldenEye
I hate how Apple unifies the mouse scroll and trackpad scroll interpretation, so I really love this project: https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels
IIRC it’s default in Windows and GNOME now too. It’s a very strange default.
it actually wasn’t in this gnome install from last night, i just happened to run across the setting while looking for something else and made the meme. but i do seem to recall having to fix this before in years past.
It’s the default for trackpads, which makes sense IMO
iirc windows uses classic direction and doesn’t have an option to change it to “natural”, meaning if you happened to get used to “natural” you have to do some janky registry thing to flip it
nope
We use Apple Computers at work and when I go to someone’s computer and realize that “natural scrolling” is on I can’t help but judge them internally. Monsters.
I’d rather have an app with unnecessary options that nobody will ever use than one where some UX expert somewhere has decided the exact way I have to interact with the program.
You have been blacklisted from Apple’s job board.
You will snooze for 9 minutes and you will like it.
There was a point in time where first person video games couldn’t make their minds up and so games came with the option to have the y-axis inverted. Moving the mouse up would make the PC look down and vice versa.
It’s because of joysticks and typical flight controls. Pushing forward goes down and pulling backwards is “pulling up”.
Joysticks rules for a long time before the mouse came out. Home computers came standard with joystick ports.
Keyboard controls followed this convention and when mouse controls came into FPS games this was the first instinct… Moving the mouse “forward” looks down.
I hate when games DON’T have the option. In FPS non-inverted makes more sense, but in 3rd person games if I can’t invert the camera if just feels unplayable.
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Can you elaborate? Every recently published game I’ve played has had this option.
I have to switch the y axis in every 3rd person game now because of super Mario sunshine.
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It’s the same with left versus right, which nobody has yet talked about. It you angled my head right, my vision would be turning towards the left. Both of these need to be inverted.
The way my brain rationalizes it (inverted y, normal x) is that the closest analog to my hand on a mouse is my hand on top of my character’s head.
To make that head look up I pull my hand back, which is the same exact motion as pulling the mouse back. So it feels natural.
To make the head look left, I would rotate my hand counterclockwise. Rotating a mouse doesn’t do anything, so I have to translate that to lateral motion, and left to look left feels more natural.
Of course the real explanation is that the first mouselook games I played defaulted to inverted y and normal x, so that’s what I got used to. And even before mouselook became a thing, I was playing flight sims, which default to inverted y. Still, it’s fun to try to rationalize something that ultimately boils down muscle memory.
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I personally invert the axes in third person scenarios because the camera moves around the character and i want to move the camera.
Within first person shooters i don’t because i move the camera/head to where i want to look.
I did this with a controller for the longest time. Specifically, the thing was not first/third person byt “do I have a visible crosshair or not”, as that defined if I am directly moving the camera/head, or if the crosshair is like a laser pointer I move on the screen and the character looks towards it.
I finally had to decide one way or the other with Monster Hunter: World as the sling requires switching between the two rapidly and while you actually can set separate inverts for first and third person, it means you can’t “follow” a monster smoothly while switching to the sling, you need to also quickly flick the stick to the other direction. Took me roughly 20 hours of rather chaotic gameplay for it to finally “click” in an instant.
I chose non-inverted as it was easier to imagine a crosshair than it was to ignore one that existed.
just imagine them pulling your hair from the front then
If I have a camera on a tripod and I angle down…the view goes up. If I angle up, the view goes down.
I much prefer a simpler analogy: If I look up, I look up. If I look down, I look down.
If they grab the back of your head, sure, but if they grabbed your nose and angled it up your vision would go up. The question, then, is where is your perception of the mouse
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If you imagine the mouse strapped to the back of your head, then moving it up would tilt your head down, but it would also tilt you head left when you moved it right. So if you want to use realism (in this mouse behind the head scenario) as an argument for inversion then you would need left and right inverted too.
However, if you strap the mouse to your face, now if you move the mouse up, your head tilts up aswell. If you move it right, you look right. And given in 1st person games the camera is at the front of the head, this is why non-inverted is preferred.
The only argument for either is personal preference and more people prefer the latter, non-inverted, which is why it is not the default.
I like to imagine that if there was a small 2D picture somewhere inside the 3D game, I could use the crosshair as a mouse cursor on that picture.
Spoken like a gentleman who drinks his orange juice warm while eating his daily tune of toothpaste.
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Exactly my point
they are GASLIGHTING us into thinking reverse way is NORMAL!
i only use that for touchpad
Yes, that would make sense, but why does the UI show a mouse with a scroll wheel then.
Stop trying to make all PCs phones, its not going to happen. STOP.
My phone is a PC…
But is your PC a phone?
I preferred the term “Australian scrolling”
I love the natural direction for my track pad and phone, but I’ll die before I use it on my mouse. I have to use a 3rd party app to make my mouse behave the way I want and still use a track pad
The default behavior of mouse wheel (what shown in OP graphics) is the same as on the phone. What are you talking about?
It’s not. When you move wheel up, content moves up. When you move finger up, content moves down.
I was so confused until I read this, because I was like “but… The scroll wheel is normally used to scroll the page.” I didn’t realize this made it backwards tho. Ew.
On your phone when you move finger up, the content moves down???
When you slide your finger up your screen, the content scrolls down. That’s why you swipe up when you browse Lemmy or Reddit or whatever. Whereas on a computer, sliding the mouse wheel up causes the page to scroll up.
You only use that on a touchpad
It’s supposed to mimic how you scroll on your phone. Fine for TouchPads (depending on when you learned to use it(i.e., if you learned to use a touch pad after learning to use a smart phone then it would make, slightly, more sense)), abhorrent for mice.
if you look at the image it clearly shows a mouse moving content.
Most of the time, the linux memes community sparks better debates and discussion than the linux one, where everything is circlejerk and “windows bad”
the linuxgaming communities are also generally p decent
I have natural scrolling on for both mouse and touchpad, I like it much better. It’s a pain in Windows though, have to edit register to change wheel direction.
i dont get it. what’s “natural scrolling”?
“Natural scrolling” just reverses the scroll direction. Pushing the mouse wheel up will scroll the content down. It’s called “natural” because it’s similar to the way you drag content around on touch screens.
What am I missing? What else would the mouse wheel do?
it’s mostly for touchpads, I find it better as it mimics the behaviour on phones touchscreen but sometimes I disable it
I hope nobody uses it on a mouse
Apple enters the chat
