And your stance of “I can learn x in two days, so how can people say it takes longer to learn y” isn’t pretentious?
When do you consider someone’s “mental model” “appropriate”?
“appropriate” isn’t a quantification of the mental model in itself, I am using the word as “having a mental model that is appropriate to the thing being learned”. A different mental model is required for React than working with vanilla JS and manipulating the DOM directly, so the mental model for one isn’t appropriate for the other.
And yes, a mental model is quantifiable, to the extent that it accurately predicts what consequences design and implementation decisions may have on the behavior of the system.
I have nearly a decades experience and react can definitely be learnt in a few days. I say maybe 5-6 on average if you dedicate yourself to it and have a good chunk of development experience already under your belt. My 18 year old apprentice had it mostly down by the end of an afternoon. Although he is exceptionally talented.
I think there’s a pretty significant difference between a week and 2 days in terms of how much time you had to solidify your understanding.
I also didn’t take that long to pick up the basics, but I could not say that I understood hooks within the first two days of working with React. There are just so many small details and limitations that can catch you by surprise if you don’t know why hooks work the way they do, same with the lifecycle of a component and what triggers a re-render. That does take a few days to fully understand in a way that you can utilize moving forward.
It’s possible that I had a harder time because I was used to manipulating the DOM directly, and so managing all updates through state changes and being strongly discouraged from directly referencing UI elements felt very foreign to me. I don’t think that my stance would change if I had a different experience in the beginning though.
Idk man, I lived and worked through all the changes to react and had a good amount of experience with state based programming before that. I definitely know several people who would laugh at the complexity of hooks and the react life-cycle. There’s some gotchas but nothing that’s out of this world.
So yeah I think it’s possible for a highly experienced developer to have React mostly down in two days. I just straight up disagree based on my experience. I suggested 5-6 for a reasonable average for someone with 5+ years of good experience in that general domain. My apprentice was mostly a python Dev too and he was better than my colleage of three years after a few days.
How are you saying you “straight up disagree” and then you go on to agree with me that for someone without exceptional experience, 5-6 days is reasonable?
You’re the one making the claim it’s not possible and I’m saying yes it is with good experience and talent since I’ve seen it. I’m not agreeing with you at all?
Please point me to where I said that then. Given that my stance is just that it’s not very plausible, I would be very interested to see where I supposedly claimed it wasn’t possible.
Now you’re just being a pedant. Why argue with me about the differenc between 6 days and 2 days? Why have this ludicrous accusation that the other guy definitely doesn’t have a good mental model of react and you definitely do? You’re entire argument is hinged on calling out the guy for claiming he thinks react was pretty easy to pick up. Why are you arguing with me then when I’m saying it’s possible if your position is that it’s also possible too if not “plausible.” Although I really don’t take much weight in your assesment at this point. I tried to give my two cents on the scenario in which I see people pick up react quickly while you’re busy calling out this random dude for it not being plausible. Again, it’s pretentious. You’re not an authority, I have 4 times the experience with react professionally with 2yrs as technical manager and training react devs. I know wtf I’m talking about. There are plenty of people who can learn it in a week whilst you’re talking about years and a few I’ve seen do it quicker. I think you’re mixing up actual Dev experience with understanding a UI framework.
Where did I say it takes years? I literally said earlier in my response to your very first comment that I think 2 days vs a week can make a big difference in understanding.
And your stance of “I can learn x in two days, so how can people say it takes longer to learn y” isn’t pretentious?
“appropriate” isn’t a quantification of the mental model in itself, I am using the word as “having a mental model that is appropriate to the thing being learned”. A different mental model is required for React than working with vanilla JS and manipulating the DOM directly, so the mental model for one isn’t appropriate for the other.
And yes, a mental model is quantifiable, to the extent that it accurately predicts what consequences design and implementation decisions may have on the behavior of the system.
Yeah, I never once said that, I’m simply stating that considering something “learned” is subjective. Get this strawman shit out of here.
I have nearly a decades experience and react can definitely be learnt in a few days. I say maybe 5-6 on average if you dedicate yourself to it and have a good chunk of development experience already under your belt. My 18 year old apprentice had it mostly down by the end of an afternoon. Although he is exceptionally talented.
I think there’s a pretty significant difference between a week and 2 days in terms of how much time you had to solidify your understanding.
I also didn’t take that long to pick up the basics, but I could not say that I understood hooks within the first two days of working with React. There are just so many small details and limitations that can catch you by surprise if you don’t know why hooks work the way they do, same with the lifecycle of a component and what triggers a re-render. That does take a few days to fully understand in a way that you can utilize moving forward.
It’s possible that I had a harder time because I was used to manipulating the DOM directly, and so managing all updates through state changes and being strongly discouraged from directly referencing UI elements felt very foreign to me. I don’t think that my stance would change if I had a different experience in the beginning though.
Idk man, I lived and worked through all the changes to react and had a good amount of experience with state based programming before that. I definitely know several people who would laugh at the complexity of hooks and the react life-cycle. There’s some gotchas but nothing that’s out of this world.
So yeah I think it’s possible for a highly experienced developer to have React mostly down in two days. I just straight up disagree based on my experience. I suggested 5-6 for a reasonable average for someone with 5+ years of good experience in that general domain. My apprentice was mostly a python Dev too and he was better than my colleage of three years after a few days.
How are you saying you “straight up disagree” and then you go on to agree with me that for someone without exceptional experience, 5-6 days is reasonable?
You’re the one making the claim it’s not possible and I’m saying yes it is with good experience and talent since I’ve seen it. I’m not agreeing with you at all?
Please point me to where I said that then. Given that my stance is just that it’s not very plausible, I would be very interested to see where I supposedly claimed it wasn’t possible.
Now you’re just being a pedant. Why argue with me about the differenc between 6 days and 2 days? Why have this ludicrous accusation that the other guy definitely doesn’t have a good mental model of react and you definitely do? You’re entire argument is hinged on calling out the guy for claiming he thinks react was pretty easy to pick up. Why are you arguing with me then when I’m saying it’s possible if your position is that it’s also possible too if not “plausible.” Although I really don’t take much weight in your assesment at this point. I tried to give my two cents on the scenario in which I see people pick up react quickly while you’re busy calling out this random dude for it not being plausible. Again, it’s pretentious. You’re not an authority, I have 4 times the experience with react professionally with 2yrs as technical manager and training react devs. I know wtf I’m talking about. There are plenty of people who can learn it in a week whilst you’re talking about years and a few I’ve seen do it quicker. I think you’re mixing up actual Dev experience with understanding a UI framework.
Where did I say it takes years? I literally said earlier in my response to your very first comment that I think 2 days vs a week can make a big difference in understanding.