It’s so bizarre to read this in the present, knowing how incredible TNG was, but I get it - the original crew WAS Star Trek to them.

The dedicated fans revived this series in syndication, well after it had gone off the air in 1969, and felt attached to the characters that they had obsessed over between then and the 1980s. Like modern fans, they thought that departure from what they knew would ruin it.

I wish I could go back in time and tell them that TNG is going to rock.

    • The Picard Maneuver@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      12·
      1 year ago

      Yeah, what was revolutionary in the 1960s (humans of all nationalities working together) wouldn’t have been enough in 1987, but I appreciate that it set the groundwork for the series as a whole.

      The acting in TOS is over the top and often silly, but I try to watch it as a product of its time - audiences didn’t really want their shows to have an edge or get deeply philosophical back then, so Roddenberry and team had to sneak that type of stuff in where they could. I have a soft spot for TOS and the campy characters and still think it’s a fun lighthearted watch.

  • hesusingthespiritbomb@lemmy.worldEnglish
    441·
    1 year ago

    I mean let’s be real here they had every right to be concerned. TNG had serious problems in the beginning and had some pretty big flaws even as the show got going. Off the top of my head

    • The first few episodes (besides Q) were straight trash. Even if you take out the ample racism and sexism, they still kinda suck
    • Worf didn’t become a thing until Yar died. He was just kinda there. Also his hair looked ridiculous
    • Riker was half as sexy in terms of looks and a quarter as sexy in terms of personality
    • Picard was a dick. Not firm but fair. A straight up dick.
    • They straight up got rid of crusher for a season
    • The Ferengi were awful. Not like in a “lol what shenanigans is Quark up to now” but in a “TOS Gorn” way
    • cloudy1999@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      22·
      1 year ago

      I’m watching TNG now with someone who’s never seen it before, and that’s making me ‘see’ the show with fresh eyes. The first few episodes are so hard to get through. Some are straight up cringey. Many remember Code of Honor and Last Outpost as being horrible, but Naked Now is awful in its own way. Don’t get me wrong: TNG goes on to be an excellent, culture-defining show. When people talk about how good it is, they’re probably thinking about Measure of a Man, Inner Light, Darmok, and Best of Both Worlds.

      Let me add that DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise got to build on the risks that TNG took. Those shows were more consistently good at their starts.

      • Ilari@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        6·
        1 year ago

        The Naked Now was a bizarre choice for such an early episode. It’s the very first one after the premiere, and it’s based on the crew acting out of character – before the audience has had time to learn what their personalities are supposed to be.

    • nxdefiant@startrek.websiteEnglish
      12·
      1 year ago

      Completely irrelevant to the topic, but my personal head canon is that Janeway admired Worf’s S1 Hair and copied it when she was given Voyager to command.

    • T156@lemmy.worldEnglish
      61·
      1 year ago

      They straight up got rid of crusher for a season

      I believe McFadden was fired, which was why she disappeared for no reason or fanfare.

      TNG had serious problems in the beginning and had some pretty big flaws even as the show got going. Off the top of my head

      You’re not wrong. I think the only main character that really had any development in the first 2 seasons is Dr Pulaski, going from someone completely unfamiliar with Data, and conscious machinery, to being an ardent supporter of his. We had a little but in Data settling into being an emotionless Android trying to learn to be more human, and Geordi becoming Chief Engineer, but they were very minor background tweaks to the characters.

      Everyone else barely changed at all in that time, except for Lt. Yar, who went from being a living breathing person to corpse.

    • Loom In Essence@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      1 year ago

      I love the first few episodes, I prefer babyface riker, and I think Dick Picard was a cool badass who I fully support.

      But they should have kept Crusher, and the political conflicts were a ridiculous joke epitomized by the cartoonish ferengi. S3 gave us much better aesthetics and politics (though the new character driven storytelling might be a matter of taste).

    • theangryseal@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      1 year ago

      Yeah, who even thought that for a second?

      I grew up with Next Generation first, sitting on my dad’s lap watching the show with him.

      When I first watched TOS I remember seeing Spock and saying, “oh yeah, the original Data”.

      • T156@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        1 year ago

        Especially since Spock was often described by Bones as being a walking computer, and Data was described as an Android. It would be less of a logical leap than having Geordi be the new Spock.

      • TimewornTraveler@lemm.eeEnglish
        2·
        1 year ago

        I remember thinking, “I don’t wanna watch a Trek without Spock,” and then Data came along and I was hooked.

    • CeruleanRuin@lemmings.worldEnglish
      4·
      1 year ago

      Was that part of the marketing at the time, or just some bizarre leap from the author? I’m having a hard time finding any good comparisons between La Forge and Spock. In season 1 Geordi wasn’t even in engineering, let alone the science officer. He was a helmsman, so in that sense more comparable to Sulu or Chekhov, and he certainly doesn’t have anything like the relationship with the captain that Spock did.

      Is it just because he was a recognizable name at the time? It’s just a weird jump to make.

  • ramble81@lemm.eeEnglish
    33·
    1 year ago

    “unknown British Shakespearian actor…” Wow, I never thought I’d hear Patrick Stewart described that way.

  • scarabic@lemmy.worldEnglish
    265·
    1 year ago

    I’ll bet that any TOS fans who were furious at the time probably did not go on to like the show. If they were looking for that witty love/hate triangle of Spock/Kirk/McCoy they didn’t get it.

    But as the name suggests, TNG reached a totally new generation of fans. American culture had changed a LOT between these two shows and anyone attached to the old one was either old themselves or hooked on reruns.

    TNG didn’t slap big right away, either. It took time to get good and find its audience. But I’m so glad they succeeded.

    I say all this to point out that angry fans weren’t actually wrong. The Trek they knew was never coming back. It became a whole other thing for a whole other group of people.

    The difference between this and, say, the Star Wars sequels is that those sequels disappointed fans AND failed to find a new audience that was just as dedicated and even larger.

    People like to use this article to show that angry fans are just idiots- always there and usually wrong. But the TNG miracle hasn’t been repeated many times, if ever, by any of these other franchise rehashes that a Hollywood has shoved out to grab for cash.

    • BlinkAndItsGone@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      1 year ago

      I’ll bet that any TOS fans who were furious at the time probably did not go on to like the show.

      As a TOS fan who wasn’t too happy with what I had heard before TNG came out, I would bet against you. Most of them probably became TNG fans eventually, because the most impactful thing a show can do is simply to be great. Canon complaints and complaints about characters not returning are mostly about nostalgia, and if the show is compelling (especially if it’s compelling in a similar way to the old show), nostalgia can’t compete. If anything I’d guess that the people in this article were more likely to become fans of TNG, because it would have exceeded their expectations, which can make things seem better than they would otherwise.

  • Asymptote@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    201·
    1 year ago

    If you’ve seen the original Battlestar Galactica you’ll know why they were worried.

    Only good thing about that show was that in space, bras were unpopular.

    • GratefullyGodless@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      1 year ago

      That’s because, according to renown space expert George Lucas, wearing a bra in space would strangle the wearer, which is why Princess Leia jiggled her way around the Death Star. So, it’s not that they were unpopular, just that they were a safety issue.

      • AEsheron@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        1 year ago

        I mean, she wasn’t jiggling. Carrie had often complained about how tightly bound she was, he specifically didn’t want that look either. Nothing at all in that outfit would have honestly made a huge difference in how the whole thing felt I think, at least in hindsight it would really cheapen it.

  • I Cast Fist@programming.devEnglish
    173·
    1 year ago

    The only thing I wish TNG did from the get go, or kept from season 2 onwards, was Dr. Pulaski. She was simply a much better character and doctor than Crusher, she fit in with the rest of the crew much better as well.

      • maegul (he/they)@lemmy.mlEnglish
        121·
        1 year ago

        Including, most importantly probably, naturally having the believable ability to stand up against the captain. There’s natural chemistry in that sort of dynamic, you’re almost waiting for a plot line to come along that splits them against each other.

    • xT1TANx@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      I was fine with the character but hated the actress. She was an old crone and didn’t mesh into the ensemble IMO. The same for Natasha. Her acting chops were simple subpar.

      • Maho@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        3·
        1 year ago

        I don’t remember Tasha being more subpar than the rest of the cast, the first two seasons were abysmal compared to seasons 3+.

        • xT1TANx@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          I may be biased. I started in s4 and then went back to watch everything. I had no idea who Yar was and then didn’t like her acting. Her reactions to things seems forced. Her character had a rough upbringing but how the actress tries to portray it felt disjointed to me. The same for when she was trying to be attractive in scenes. I felt like she didn’t know how to act. And then when she was made to play a Romulan omg. She was terrible.

  • Nmyownworld@startrek.websiteEnglish
    13·
    1 year ago

    There were Star Trek fans at the time screaming from the rooftops about how TNG would ruin Star Trek. Before TNG even aired. But, there were also Star Trek fans who, while disappointed to not have the TOS crew back, were curious about what TNG was going to bring to the table. And, really happy to have a Star Trek series again. But, “Curious Trekkies Wait to See What’s What with TNG” wasn’t going to sell as many papers and stir up as much drama.

    • Altima NEO@lemmy.zipEnglish
      6·
      1 year ago

      Wasnt it 20 years later too? I mean the og crew probably didn’t want to come back

      • Nmyownworld@startrek.websiteEnglish
        4·
        1 year ago

        Yeah. The TOS cast did movies, but there’s a difference between doing a film and doing a weekly series. TOS was comfort viewing, and fans were going to fan in wanting more of the same.

    • TrustingZebra@lemmy.oneEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      There were Star Trek fans at the time screaming from the rooftops about how TNG would ruin Star Trek.

      Is this what people had to do to spread their word before the internet?

    • Match!!@pawb.socialEnglish
      0·
      1 year ago

      Well, they probably have one point - how many modern Trek fans have even watched TOS?

      • Nmyownworld@startrek.websiteEnglish
        4·
        1 year ago

        A lot, I think. At the time of TNG’s initial broadcast, TOS was omnipresent in syndication. And outside of TAS, the only Star Trek series at the time. Star Trek fans watched the heck out of TOS. Then, the Star Trek movies with the TOS cast. The first four films were released before TNG first aired.

        • T156@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          1 year ago

          I remain slightly miffed about how Dr Pulaski, one of the few characters that received any development in TNG S2, was so hated by some fans that it caused to Diane Muldur to swear off of Trek altogether.

          She might not have entirely understood Data to begin with, but she did become better at that later on, a stark contrast to much of the rest of the Federation, which would still be arguing whether he, or his children had personhood, and is the only Starfleet Doctor in RetroTrek to actively take an interest in and engage with her patient’s cultures.

          I can’t envision early Dr Crusher taking part in Worf’s Klingon tea ceremony, for example.

    • PuppyOSAndCoffee@lemmy.mlEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      LOL. The TNG hate was ridiculous, but one other thing - nobody ignores a Star Trek fan better than other fans of Star Trek.

    • Holzkohlen@feddit.deEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      I thought that was a Star Wars thing, but I guess it’s just a thing in general. For reference I like it all, Star Wars, Star Trek, TOS, TNG

  • Julian@lemm.eeEnglish
    5·
    1 year ago

    It’s always funny looking back at stuff like this. I remember looking at old articles about Catherine Tate becoming a companion in doctor who and people were furious - and in retrospect not only was she one of the best companions, but that was probably the greatest era of the show.

  • mothersprotege@lemm.eeEnglish
    3·
    1 year ago

    I recall this being posted ad nauseum on r/startrek, and the comments were always full of people using it to dismiss any and all criticism of Discovery and/or Picard. Nice to see that not being rehashed here.