• evranch@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    No, it’s zero emission but not renewable.

    Nuclear fission is actually by definition the least renewable energy source. Even coal and oil are renewable on long enough time scales. But there will never be more uranium than there is right now.

    We actually don’t have that much of it if we consider the long term future, only a thousand years or so. So nuclear is intended to be a bridge to eventual full renewable power generation and storage, an essential component in the present day but it’s still a bridge.

    Another thing to consider is that nuclear is the only power source that works in deep space away from the Sun. So if we’re serious about exploring the solar system or further, we’d be best not to burn up all of our fissionable material right away.

        • CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          1 year ago

          The production of the uranium fuel, the gigantic building itself, the transport (the fule gets shipped around the world), the storage after its depleted.

          Its definitely better than any Combustion fuels, but not at all better than actual renewables.

          • evranch@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            When considering these externalities for nuclear, you have to do the same for renewables as well. i.e. scrap turbine blades, concrete in dams, weathered PV panels, land use taken up by panels and turbines.

            Remember that the materials used in most renewable generation are also shipped around the world and many have very dirty refining processes.

            I’m a firm renewable energy supporter but you have to be fair to both processes.

            • CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              You neglect the problem that the stuff from a nuclear reactor is literally unusable forever and becomes Special waste while the remains of renewables are recyclable, yes even turbine blades, there is just not enough market for it to attract a business so far, that will change of course with time, also the stuff is not toxic or radioactive…

              Remember that the materials used in most renewable generation are also shipped around the world and many have very dirty refining processes.

              Depends, newer version of the stuff don’t need rare earths, or much less, meaning the dirtiest of it falls out of the equation.

              I am fair, nuclear is just not future proof for large scale usage. It also takes to long to be “effective” 10 years to build one powerplant, and is waaaay to expensive. you could build more actually renewables for less money in the same time and the electricity from it is basically free as there are almost no operational costs.

            • schroedingershat@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Okay.

              Make a PV system out of a strict subset of the materials in the reactor.

              Put the PV system over top of Inkai mine.

              Get more power than the uranium from the mine would produce for longer.

              The 40 year guaranteed lifetime of the panels is longer than the 30 year lifetime of the average nuclear plant at shutdown.

              Your materials can be recycled after.

              The ground around the mine isn’t poisoned with heavy metals permanently,

              This all assuming everything goes perfectly for the nuclear plant and waste disposal.

                • schroedingershat@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Incredibly well quantified emissions that are in total lower than the emissions from mining uranium (except for two or three cherry picked mines which are supposed to be representative), or the emissions from building and decomissioning a nuke if you take real lifetimes and load factors.

          • Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Most of those costs are similar for renewables…rather than a building it’s the production and installation of fields of solar panels, for example.

            In both cases I’m pretty sure it’s a negligible fraction of the lifecycle emissions compared to energy generated.

            • CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              The problem is reliability, Europe sees more and more droughts building energy facilities that turn useful water into useless steam makes little sens when there are other options.

              Also nuclear makes Sweden dependant on a country thaz exports nuclear fule.

              And for solar the costs are shrinking and shrinking, the newest and most efficient panels don’t even need rare earths anymore and are recyclable. Btw Sweeden would be better suited for Hydroelectric dams and Wind wich have even less such problems.

              • Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Sweden?

                Drought?

                Anyway I’m not a civil engineer or geologist or renewable energy engineer or anything, so I won’t pretend to know what the best path is. I’m just hoping they did their studies correctly and are picking the best option.

                But even if they’re not, it’s good they’re moving away from fossil fuels, whichever direction they move in.

                • schroedingershat@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Well no, that’s the thing. They’ve replaced moving away from fossil fuels now with promising they’re going to in 2045

    • AbsolutelyNotABot@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nuclear fission is actually by definition the least renewable energy source

      But if you go according the strict physical principle every energy source is non-renewable

      The sun fuses a finire amount of hydrogen, earth has a finire amount of latent heat, the moon a finire amount of gravitational inertia etc.

      And there’s a little paradox if you think about it, how can fusion be non-renewable but solar, that use radiation from the sun fusion, be renewable?

      • evranch@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        A bit of a stretch maybe, but I’m considering us to be discussing whether an energy source is renewable on Earth. The Sun is not renewable, but by the time that it’s no longer viable the Earth will be long gone as well! So as long as the Earth exists, I would say that solar PV and other solar driven processes like wind and hydro are renewable.

        By these standards yes, deep geothermal and tidal are “not renewable” either.

    • Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      “Renewable” typically means renewable on human time scales, so fossil fuels don’t count.

      Biofuel would be renewable.

      If you consider fusion to be “nuclear”, that’s renewable. But yeah, not fission.

      It is zero emission though.

      • Synapse@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        You are probably refering to thorium-based nuclear power plants. Until this day, there isn’t such a power-plant in a production-ready state. Because it’s far from simple, not only because of technical challanges, but also potentially catastrofic environmental impact. I encourge you to read more if you are intrested.