As a Linux user this and posts like this piss me off. Linux is NOT and WILL NEVER be a replacement for any other operating system (except maybe Minix). By implying Linux is the same or similar enough to Windows you bring in Windows users who except everything to be the same. Fundamentally thats not a good thing for anyone, Windows users get confused and maintainers are encouraged not to deviate from Windows even in ways that make the OS better (for example KDE not going all in on tiling to appease Windows users). In my option Linux shouldn’t be recommended to anyone. Linux software maintainers should focus on the core Linux userbase and people who want their OS to look and function exactly like Windows/MacOS should just use Windows or MacOS.
To the Kwin maintainer, I can see why tiling isn’t a bigger deal. It’s not exactly about copying Windows; it’s more about not confusing most users. We already see tiling features, I’m sure they will figure out (1) more powerful features or (2) a way for other people to build off what they have. Let them cook.
I do agree that Linux will never be a Windows clone. There’s no purpose in copying decades worth of bad decisions. Windows isn’t great, it’s just always compatible with hardware.
How exactly is tiling confusing? If people were willing to accept that Linux functions differently then tiling can became just another thing to learn. Its objectivity more efficient then stacking so why not?
If the tiling is automatic and the users dont know how to change the size of the window manually (if that window manager allows that).
What if on the first boot the tiling could be explained by a welcome app (kinda like what KDE has), it would explain all of the shortcuts and then you could bring up all of the shortcuts with a simple shortcut. I personally use Sway and I think i3 based WMs are better, I believe on pretty much all i3 based WMs its as simple as super + r for resizing mode and esc to leave.
I have a lot of respect for Sway and wlroots developers. They contributed heavily to the desktop Linux ecosystem. However, if you need to explain that much at first boot; you may overload some users. I’m sure tiling in Plasma will get better as they splify configuration and figure out better defaults.
Well said. Then there is the entire ecosystem of programs and apps for which there is no real ability to install on Linux (and for which tools like Wine will either be buggy or even nonfunctional), and whose absence will just piss users off.
As much as I love Linux and BSD, it is really only for people who are either mentally geared to shift off of Windows or whose minimal needs won’t notice the difference; it is not a drop-in replacement for Windows.
For example, my octogenarian father has exactly such minimal needs except for one program: Quicken. Any bugs or issues running that as an installed desktop program on Linux would have him enraged and throwing the PC out the window. So he is still on Windows, and I am keeping my eyes open on how to properly neuter/excise Copilot once it drops.
I just did my install of Linux Mint. I have a number of complaints that are really the fault of Microsoft, other things tripping me up that are just about me learning differences; BUT I still find there’s some things Linux could take as lessons.
One of them is keyboard shortcuts. I learned Windows shortcuts because they followed intuitive logic, like what role the “Tab” key has and what the Shift key is doing to adjust its action. Linux apps often make up their own logic around this, which even if it made sense internally, doesn’t work with apps like Firefox which are still using Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs, possibly to keep Windows parity. Then, since Linux is supposed to be built to customize, if I try changing the terminal to switch tabs using Ctrl+Tab…it just doesn’t let you; pretends you didn’t press anything. Stock boot of Linux Mint 22.
You’re right that they shouldn’t be changing just for aping the dominating competitor; that’s how we unfortunately got Chromium supremacy. I still think there’s gentle UX considerations they could handle more often though. Basically the type of thing decided in board rooms that engineers would lose interest in.
Title acts as if once it’s stopped being supported, the fucker will vanish or be unusable at all.
Real talk.
I have been around long enough to know that this conversation has happened ever since Windows 7.
And each time and every time an OS EOL I spend time investigating a couple of Linux distros to try that switch.
This time is no different. From Redhat to Debian to Ubuntu to popOS to Mint. Each one is significantly better than the last.
But even 2024, I’m having to spend time inside the terminal to make the OS act more like Windows.
Tailscale has no native app. Gotta install it in the terminal. I want to use my touch screen in the browser to swipe the back button. Nope, I spent 2 hours on forums and ChatGPT and had to install something in the terminal. I was not successful. My Nvidia video card is not working properly. I gave up after.
Why am I spending hours trying to make my experience like Windows when Windows is right there. Sure sure, privacy and advertising yada yada. Install Adguard and disable services that you don’t agree with.
Because posts like these are fundamentally misleading, Linux isnt a Windows replacement nor is it meant to be (it also wouldn’t make sense since Linux is older then Windows, at least the NT kernel). Honesty if you’re trying to make Linux as similar to Windows as possible just use Windows.
I deal with this issue every few years grappling with a new linux install. And then gaslighted into thinking it’s a non-issue when asking for help. “No big deal, just copy these long lines into the terminal to install this thing that would take a single click on Windows”. Like being obstinant is a virtue
So you’re saying you don’t spend hours on a new Windows install?
Or that things that take a moment on Linux may take half an hour on Windows, but God forbid it happens the other way around, unacceptable?
I mean, things that take a single click on Windows are apparently not all you do to make Windows usable, otherwise installing it and setting it up would take less time, right?
If you still have time & energy to troubleshoot you can create posts for your issues. ChatGPT may give incorrect advice.
I switched because my OS drive was HDD and Win10 was slow & unstable. The background tasks of Win put heavy load on the PC because I didn’t have an SSD. Linux was also slow but a bit more bearable, plus it was stable. Did an SSD upgrade years later.
Maybe you’ve been sold a bit of a lie.
Linux is not like Windows. Linux will never be like Windows. It is first and foremost a general operating system, not necessarily a Desktop operating system.
IMO, that means you will never truly be able to completely avoid using the terminal here or there.
Telling people that it’s easy to switch from Windows to Linux is just not true. Linux just works differently and going in with the expectation that things will work the same way only serves to disappoint those brave enough to attempt the switch.
If you try again, go in with the mindset that you’ve never used a computer before, and without needing to depend on Linux for your day to day computer work. See it as a tinkering side project, and maybe it will stoke your curiosity enough that you’ll want to use it day to day.
Stop intimidating folks who just a computer that does work for them with “learn” linux as if linux is a programming language. Many linux distros are super user friendly and work exactly like windows UI.
Beside, why do you think iPhones, as dumb and as bloated and as restricted and limited and overpriced they are, still are the most selling phones worldwide year after year? It’s because my 80 yr old mom knows how to use it.
Most people and professionals in the world just want a machine to do their work and are not intrested in learning progamming or command lines to do it. Nurses, doctors and surgeons, non-computer engineers, artists, business managers, …etc, are too busy and occupied to even change the defaut settings or uninstall anything that comes with windows not because they love it but becuse not intrested and don’t care. Add to those groups most, actually all, girls I’ve ever met in my life. They have different hobbies and learning OSes is not of them. It’s like a girl saying “Soon Sephora will discontinue their HilightBrushExfoilioter and everyone who wants to wash their face needs to learn Mac’s DeepBeauty routines”. while dudes are like we know soaps but wtf is an exfoilating routine. Literally, they don’t know what linux is, and it’s not going to sell to tell them to learn.
So tl;dr: I’m saying the thing that sells would be Pop OS or Mint, or anything that requires the least or none learning curve.
While this is true, learning some kind of programming - shell scripting or BASIC in olden days - is a very useful endeavor.
It’s very convenient for everyone to be able to automate their work.
And it’s not particularly different from cooking something once in a while.
Not required at all to use Linux, of course.
Though for operating systems … People here for whatever reason downvote things they fear, but even OpenBSD is simple enough. It does require using shell, but as compared to any other desktop OS I touched that’s just really negligible and is usually a copy-paste from FAQ.
While this is true, learning some kind of programming - shell scripting or BASIC in olden days - is a very useful endeavor.
And learning sewing is useful, but I dont need it to wear clothes.
It’s not comparable to sewing. That would be learning C++ and Qt.
It’s comparable to making a sandwich.
How is learning C++ and QT not programming?
Golly.
C++ and QT is programming comparable to hard things in life.
Shell scripting is programming comparable to usual things in life.
Capisce?
Last month, for the first time, Windows 11 was a more popular OS than Windows 10 in the Steam Hardware Survey. Of course, this is an imprecise science as people have to opt in to having their machines measured but it’s a sign of wider adoption. Windows 8, on the other hand, never made it big enough to do the same in its lifespan. Windows 7 was a very popular OS and adoption even to Windows 10 was fairly slow initially, partially down to that skepticism.
You can’t cite the jump from 7 to 8 or 7 to 10 without also remarking on the fact users had far more.control over updates back then.
Yeah, Windows 11 adoption is up, because most people don’t have a choice, or they didn’t care enough to stop it happening automatically, and don’t know how to roll it back. That doesn’t translate to approval.
At a certain point, adoption rates just don’t matter anymore because increasingly the user doesn’t have a choice anymore.
Of course, this is an imprecise science as people have to opt in to having their machines measured but it’s a sign of wider adoption
They already account for that.
They don’t, that quote is talking about the steam survey, which allows steam to read what OS the user is using. The point OP is making is that the only reason W11 is more popular than W10 is because Microsoft is forcing the update
Right, and Valve accounts for people choosing to not take the survey. That’s just how polls are typically conducted.
You know valve isn’t Microsoft right? Those are two different companies with different agendas?
Steam asking for consent for a survey doesn’t make up for the lack of consent in updates pushed by an entirely different entity
Right, and I’m not talking about Microsoft here. That’s why I only quoted the part about Valve’s stats and pointed out that it’s not necessarily an issue that users can opt-out of that statistics collection.
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Pirate a copy of windows 11 N. It’s the eu version that doesn’t have any of this dogshit in it.
Is there a “government” version or similar, where security is paramount? Like, how does MS sell windows 11 to the navy or whatever…?
For locked-down devices, they’ll be running LTSC or LTSB editions (Long-Term Support Channel/Branch), or Windows Embedded, which are simplified and heavily customisable versions of Windows. For general-purpose devices, they’ll be using Pro or Enterprise versions of Windows which, crucially, support Group Policy. Using GP it is very, very easy for a single admin to configure an arbitrarily large number of Windows machines to work exactly how they want them to work, including configuration options that aren’t otherwise exposed to the end user in any way.
Edit: just to add: the lack of an equivalent of Group Policy is what is preventing Linux becoming widespread in businesses. If you think you know of a service for Linux that works like Group Policy, then you don’t know Group Policy.
I got out just before 11 released and had only been on 10 for a year or so. Military moves very slowly at rolling out the latest windows. I’d be extremely surprised if anyone who isn’t a very high rank running 11.
Probably, but the activation of it would be stringent.
The issue with any Windows OS going forward, no matter what version, is that Microsoft detests local desktop computing now, and so much of it is being ejected to the cloud. That includes all the various methods of managing it for enterprise customers. They’re slowly working towards the Apple model where the OS basically can’t live in isolation. If it touches the internet, it will phone home and kill itself if told to.
Are we talking about Windows or me at this point?
Apparently, the navy is still using Windows XP on (some?) ships: https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/2/5/navy-looks-to-industry-to-digitize-ships
Then there’s this old classic when a navy “smart” ship was adrift for 2 hours after a Windows NT crash: https://www.wired.com/1998/07/sunk-by-windows-nt/
the problem is so many office workplaces use windows and google, so unless you want to bring your own computer and buy a wifi hotspot to take to work, you’re stuck on windows and google
My work all takes place in a Linux environment. Unfortunately, my workplace still mandates using Windows.
I don’t require any Windows software for work. My boss just insists that I must use a Windows laptop, then do all of my work either in WSL or a traditional VM setup.
It’s baffling.
Security.
They want everything to be managed by Windows because they’re managing Windows themselves from Azure or Intune or whatever.
Corporate IT around the country is basically being instructed that the best and only viable security policies are the ones Microsoft writes, which also just so happen to involve all of their products exclusively. Insurance companies are starting to demand compliance with Microsoft’s security recommendations. It’s going to keep getting worse, and even though there should be heavy regulation on this monopoly, there won’t be.
And Google? I’m sure some companies use Google Apps for Business or whatevere they are calling it now, but the vast majority use Microsoft 365. Which does basically tie you to Windows, annoyingly. Especially if they are following industry and Microsoft best practices with MDM and Conditional Access.
lol we use google suite for email, calendars etc. but MS for SSO. our sister institutions mostly use MS 365, teams etc, so we also have to have all the MS crap in addition to the google crap
Until games fully support Linux or the other way around, I won’t be using Linux.
Also can’t really say that I care about Copilot that much. I don’t use it and it doesn’t bother me.
Edit: lol the people triggered by this will never not be entertaining.
It’s always the same “Games work fine on Linux… But…”. And it’s that “but” that’s usually a massive problem or nuisance to work with.
No thanks. I’ll stick to Windows for gaming just fine.
Most games work on linux with proton nowdays. Only thing that doesnt really work is games with anticheat.
Yeah I switched to Linux about a month ago now and so far every game I’ve tried has worked flawlessly.
A whole month? You must’ve tried at least a dozen games
Pack em up boys, all games work in Linux
I’ve been Linux-only for something like 15 years, which is before Steam ever came to Linux. Over the past 5-ish years, my game selection has gone from “most games will work if I tinker” to “most games just work w/ no effort needed.”
I’ve completed well over a hundred games on Linux, many of those AAA, “Windows-only” games, and I’ve played over a hundred more. The last time I had to do any kind of tinkering was for a janky old game, but most newer titles just work.
If you don’t need games w/ anticheat, Steam on Linux works incredibly well.
While it’s true I haven’t personally tried more than about a dozen of my games I will point out that 1) that covers a wide swath of genres, publishers, and game engines, and 2) I ran my entire library of several thousand games through protondb before hand to have some idea of what I was in for and out of all those thousands less than 10 reported as not functioning. Of the ones that wouldn’t work most actually can run, but the publishers are banning people who play under Linux. The most notable from that list would be Destiny 2 and GTA 5. So yes greater than 90% of all games run fine in Linux these days either straight out of the box or with simple configuration tweaks.
I would say most anticheat works (although some games specifically choose to not allow Linux). It’s just kernel level anticheat that flat out doesn’t work (which is malware anyway)
although some games specifically choose to not allow Linux
Yup, that’s the kicker. Most games w/ anticheat could work on Linux, but devs refuse to do the minimal work to enable the Linux-compatibility (in many cases, it’s a checkbox and re-export the game). So the main thing that needs to happen is more Linux adoption. The more people that use Linux, the more pressure there will be on devs to check that box.
There’s even some options, like Heroic and Junk Store, that allow you to install some anti-cheat.
Years ago I switched to Linux on my PC and everything was fine. But there was a game I wanted to play that didn’t work on Linux, so I created a small Windows partition to dual boot. Later, that game became two, then three, and so on. I had to reformat some partitions to ntfs (iirc I was using reiserfs) to expand available storage for Windows to add more games. Then at one point I realized it’s been a while since I’ve booted into Linux and I don’t even know if it still works.
So yeah, use whatever fits your needs. I’ll always pick Linux PC or Mac for work, but I’ll stick with Windows for gaming.
For context, I’ve been on computers since the 8bit era and I’ve been programming for just as long. I prefer the power of a terminal over GUIs, my “IDE” of choice is vim. I use Git Bash in Windows for access to Linux-style commands. So yeah, I am technical and I prefer Linux for practical reasons. But when I want to play a game I want to just start it and play it, not work for days to maaaybe get it to mostly run fine except for some features.
Edit: one of the games I had to use Windows for was League. A competitive online game with anti-cheat features.
Edit2: note that this was many years ago and some other games I needed Windows for will now probably work on Linux effortlessly. At least one has native support for Linux now.
I was using reiserfs
Wow, I haven’t heard that name in a while.
League
This used to work fine on Linux, but maybe that’s changed.
I play almost no competitive games, so it’s extremely rare for me to find something that doesn’t work on Linux. So YMMV, list the top games you play and check compatibility w/ Linux, hopefully you’ll be surprised at how far Linux has come. If not, it’s up to you to decide whether it’s worth using Windows 11 to play those games.
I’ve been using Linux exclusively for something like 15 years, and the selection of games went from “a handful of Linux titles + a handful more through WINE” to “most games just work through Steam when I push play.” That said, it’s not 100%, but I’m stubborn enough that I’d prefer to avoid a game rather than boot into Windows, and my Windows partition hasn’t been booted into for years (and the last time was to test some Windows-specific app for a friend).
Games that I play include Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail, both of which I just checked and don’t work on Linux due to anticheat protection. I see there are some alternative open-source launchers that would get them working on Linux and Mac, but I wouldn’t risk my account using those.
Yeah, freemium games are going to be an issue because they tend to rely on microtransactions, meaning they want to make sure people aren’t cheating to get that for free.
I avoid F2P games as a rule and generally ban my kids from playing it (they won’t play Fortnite in my house, though they can play at a friend’s I suppose), because I find them to be manipulative and huge wastes of time (i.e. grinding to avoid paying the MTX). That rule alone just happens to eliminate a ton of games that don’t work on Linux, without that actually being the goal.
But yeah, if you’re going to play F2P games or MP-centric games, Linux probably won’t be a good option for now. But if you mostly play SP games, Linux is absolutely fantastic.
I play these games in bursts. Play until exhausting the actual content, then stop when it turns into a grind-fest. Come back a year or two later when there’s enough new content to make it fun again. Usually also with a whole bunch of returning player rewards. Repeat.
A I never ever spend a single cent in these games.
Sure, and I was like that when i was younger too. I played a ton of F2P games because I honestly couldn’t afford the paid games. That said, the whole F2P game market is designed to encourage MTX, so the fun tends to be more diluted unless you pay.
That’s why I have a zero tolerance for it. Yeah, there might be fun games in the mix, but I’d much rather buy my kids a few games that I know will be fun and engaging than try to find the diamonds in the rough. I told them I’ll buy them pretty much any game they want in order to play w/ friends (they need to buy SP games w/ their allowance), but F2P is off the table.
That’s been pretty much a similar experience I used to have. Especially online games often suffer from poor Linux support because anti-cheat systems aren’t working, or not up-to-date, or something else entirely. It just felt like there was always something. I just want to boot up my PC and get going. Not boot it up and having to spend half the evening trying to figure out why a random driver/game/anti-cheat update destroyed everything that was working fine.
I’d be fine trying it again, but I know that a few games I play are still struggling with Linux issues, judging by the regular posts popping up on the related social media platforms.
I was similar, used Linux for work/programming but Windows for gaming. I refuse to update to Win 11 though, and with 10 going EOL I was faced with a problem. I’ve been using Steam Deck for about a year now with no problems so I figured I’d try going 100% Linux again. Ran my Library through protondb and nearly every single game was supported. I made the cutover about a month ago (just in time as well as literally a week before I made the switch copilot got stealth installed on my system).
So far I haven’t run into a single game that has failed or that I’ve even needed to change the options to get running. Now I don’t play LoL so I can’t speak to that specific game, and I have kept my Win 10 install if I do run into something that I can’t get running that I absolutely can’t live without, but so far I haven’t needed to boot into Windows since I made the switch. I think you might be surprised how few games won’t function in Linux these days.
I agree with you on that last bit. Pretty fucking annoying to see people act like Linux is perfectly fine for games which give new people some hope only to be frustrated and quit when they realize it’s not as fine as people make it out to be
They don’t realize that its hurting the chances of people actually adopting linux when they say misleading shit
For now linux is worth dual booting. Use linux for everything else and windows for gaming
All you have to do is check this website to check support quality for your games https://www.protondb.com/, and then decide if you want to quit. I think you don’t realize how low effort it is now, not more effort that escaping from Microsoft’s waves of enshitification.
Its more low effort (relatively low effort) for people who are already accustomed to linux and the puzzle that is to properly set up for gaming.
The issue im referring to is how people downplay linux need for manual set up.
If you choose a gaming oriented distribution like Pop OS and your game is well supported according to protondb, then there’s no manual set up, it’s as much click and play as Windows.
Unfortunately that wasnt the case when i ran cs2. It ran worse than windows. Maybe if i had amd graphics it would have been a different story as i hear positive things with amd and Linux
AMD graphic has good open source drivers that are usually included by default, for Nvidia you usually have to opt-in their proprietary drivers, but gaming oriented distributions like Pop should suggest it on the installer.
Linux is perfectly fine for games
It is. Except very specific Anti-Cheat enabled games, it just is
Use linux for everything else and windows for gaming
Instructions unclear, only gaming on Linux with 0 actual issues and an overall better experience
Except for CoD, that i keep windows around for (zombies addict, it’s a problem)
If thats the case then why do i worse performance on linux compared to windows? The issues have nothing to do with anticheat. Just cause a game runs doesnt mean its ideal especially for people that dont have money to be upgrading their pc
well it’s gonna use you soon.
Okay, well, I hope it takes me out for dinner first.
🎵🎶…Sweet dreams are made of this… 🎶🎵
I recently switched (again… again again) I am on Linux (Nobara) for good now. All the games I play either work natively, through proton, or Lutris. The worst I have to do is use a different proton version or add in a launch option.
What games are you playing though? People seem to conveniently leave that part out lol
Rocket league, helldivers 2, space marine 2, space marine 1, 40k deathwing, tabletop simulator. Uhh loads of others as and when I play them but those are the main ones currently.
Thanks for the list bud it gives a better idea. Also are you using nvidia or amd?
Using AMD friend I have is using Nvidia also. He had an issue with permissions on one of his drives not working. But nothing GPU related.
Oh also Star Citizen which still runs like utter crap just like it did when I was on Windows. That one didn’t want to install through Lutris the first 2 times as well for whatever reason. I only “play” Star Citizen because my friend wants to.
The worst I have to do is use a different proton version or add in a launch option.
And therein lies the problem that keeps most people from switching to Linux. It’s a super simple thing to do, but Linux users fall into the same fallacy that experts in any field do: just how little the average person knows about the subject. The fact that something doesn’t just work when you try to open it would leave many people stumped. Especially with tech literacy rates declining thanks to kids growing up using mostly cell phones as their daily driver rather than an actual computer and the plug and play nature of Windows and Macs. Asking your average gamer to add command line arguments to a launcher would probably be like telling them they just have to hot wire their car if it doesn’t start when you turn the key.
To be fair, the number of times I’ve had to tinker has drastically reduced since the Steam Deck came out. I used to check protondb.com before installing a game, and now I don’t bother. Games tend to “just work,” and it’s getting better all the time.
I’ve been Linux-only since before Steam came to Linux, so I’ve seen the entire evolution from “try your luck w/ WINE” to “click play and it just works.”
Now is a great time to jump into Linux gaming, and if you stick to the Steam Deck Verified titles, you’ll probably never need to tinker. If you venture out to “Steam Deck Playable,” you’ll probably never need to tinker. Honestly, even a lot of the unsupported titles work just fine w/ no tinkering.
Fair point. But Linux has come a ridiculously long way from when I last tried to use it. If you know how to make an install USB for Linux and install it then I would argue you probably have the required knowledge to use Linux or at least give it a go.
So I’m still using Windows on my desktop, but from my experience with Proton on Steam Deck, Proton works pretty flawlessly essentially translating the windows exe. I’m assuming it’s the same for a Linux desktop setup but I’ll let others who actually have experience here comment further. The only thing that you may have issues with are competitive online games, but those aren’t really my jam but understandable if they are for you.
That’s the thing. I play a lot of online games, not specifically competitive games, but they frequently do use stuff like EAC. And the amount of times I’ve seen EAC issues paired with Linux posts pop up on various social platforms is ridiculous. It seems like a recurring thing that requires constant maintenance. Not to mention I use Windows for more than just games. Stuff like Adobe doesn’t even work on Linux and probably won’t be anytime soon either (and no I am not going to use alternative programs).
The effort and time it takes to get stuff working on Linux usually isn’t worth it, and then there’s hoping that everything stays working whenever something gets updated.
It’s quite ridiculous how a lot of people on this platform take it as a personal insult though. The article title is complete clickbait anyway.
It seems like a recurring thing that requires constant maintenance
Well, it’s not, simple as. EAC has a checkbox in its implementation dev-side to enable Linux support, if it doesn’t work it’s 110% on the devs to fix it. There are some workarounds for some games, but it’s honestly a binary yes or no most of the time, and it completely falls on the devs not doing something simple.
Stuff like Adobe doesn’t even work on Linux
Natively? No. Install WINE like a normal person and it absolutely does
The effort and time it takes to get stuff working on Linux usually isn’t worth it
Totally false ime, the example that comes straight to mind is that Bethesda games took an extra hour or so to mod on Linux (an issue that won’t be repeated now that I know), but the games work and run significantly less shitty and I was able to enjoy them even more. Or installing KDE plasma the other day to try it out, 5 minutes of troubleshooting for a much better desktop experience. It seems like you’re thinking about Linux from 5 or more years ago with this one tbh
and then there’s hoping that everything stays working whenever something gets updated.
Not really, but even if you are worried about that then just don’t update the thing you’re afraid will break? Unlike windows you actually get that option
It’s quite ridiculous how a lot of people on this platform take it as a personal insult though
People pointing out factually incorrect statements isn’t them being personally insulted, it’s usually annoyance that someone is just confidently blasting crap out of their mouths
No one is taking anything here as a personal insult outside of your own mind. More likely than not they simply think your effort doesn’t count for much as gaming on Linux is stellar out of the box.
Yeah, if you’re largely playing online games w/ anti-cheat, you’re going to have a rough time on Linux. But if you’re largely playing single-player games w/o anti-cheat, you’ll probably never need to tinker.
YMMV absolutely applies here. I personally play almost no online games (I just don’t have the time), so pretty much everything I play just works OOTB. I’ve finished well over a hundred games on Linux, and very few needed any form of tinkering, and I haven’t needed to adjust a launch parameter for the last couple years (last time I did was for a really old game, newer games generally just work).
Check your favorite games on this website that tells how well it runs on Steams on Linux, you may have surprises. https://www.protondb.com/
Honestly, you probably don’t even need to check them. If they’re Steam Deck Verified, they’ll probably just work. If they’re Steam Deck Playable, they’ll probably just work (most common issues are controls or small text, neither is an issue on desktop/laptop).
You honestly only need to check protondb if you have an issue, or maybe if you’re buying a game that’s “Unsupported” or something. 9/10 times, just clicking Play will work fine if it’s a single player game.
You mean deck verified shows on the Steam shop so you don’t have to check on protondb? I don’t use the deck so I didn’t follow this much.
Yes, Deck Verified on Steam means Valve has verified that it works on the Deck. If it works on the Deck, it’ll work on Linux, because the Deck runs Linux and it’s basically the same software stack.
Protondb is a community project where people submit reports about what works and what doesn’t. It’s a good resource, but only really needed if something isn’t working right out of the box.
I am quite disappointed. Given the title, I was like, wow, a generalist PC gaming website recommending people to switch to Linux! Read the article, Linux is not mentioned at all, I don’t even know why it is in the title. Getting a few clicks from hippies?
I don’t think it’s making a serious suggestion. It’s using “learn Linux” as an ironic punchline, like “just move to Canada”. It’s a kind of backhand.
This guy has seemingly never written about Linux before. No other articles mention it that I can find, except one where he talks about Linux overtaking Apple in gaming, where he talks mostly about Apple.
Yeah, using it ironically makes sense, stinky ignorance!
Great perspective!
Totally uncool man.
Like radically insidious man.
Not cowabunga at all.
Totally unbodacious
Totally not Not-Heinous
These all sound like 80s comments, not hippies.
Don’t be such a drag man. Enlightenment comes from acceptance.
Thanks for this unqualified headline.
For anyone who still needs Windows, I recommend you try the Windows 10 LTSC IoT variant.
It has support until 2032 and has all the bloatware ripped out. It’s extremely good.
They even have a Windows 11 version. That’s also really good. But I’m guessing if you’ve avoided upgrading to Windows 11, you’d prefer to stay on 10 anyway.
Is there an easy way to buy this as an individual?
Lmao
Windows doesn’t sell enterprise shit to normal people
This is why you gotta totally avoid sites like this one https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
They typically don’t sell licenses to individuals and even if you were able to buy one for a reseller, it would be like $500.
There are other ways of activating it, but they are a gray area, and I’d only be willing to describe them to you through DM
But will those methods even survive future updates?
The greater point is, the pattern is very clear with Microsoft and windows, and it will continue to get worse, and your options will continue to shrink. It would be better to just put any effort towards learning to use Linux and escaping the ecosystem rather than continually trying to find the ever-decreasing bits of freedom you can extract from Windows.
The activation mechanism I use on my personal PC has been active for six years without issue, so I can only assume so. And yeah, migrating to Linux works for some people, sure. But there’s no harm in letting new people know there’s options.
This isn’t reddit, you don’t need to worry about being brigaded or cancelled for talking about piracy or J-Walking
More so just trying to give the mods less to clean up if they have to. Plus I think links to it are a faux pas
Essentially, no. If you don’t care about the cost, maybe with a MSDN subscription.
I keep seeing these " time to move to Linux" threads. For my work I have to use super proprietary software which I know for a fact is Windows only. Not only that it’s GPU intensive CPU intensive and niche. I’m sure there’s a way to run Windows within Linux but I can only imagine the pain in trying to get proprietary shite to work.
On top of that I need specific CAD software, Photoshop and Illustrator. I don’t think any of these daily used programs support Linux.
From the outside, Linux just seems like an absolute ball ache to get working with all of the things I currently do without even thinking about it.
I’d love to do it. Not sure it’s going to work. Am I wrong?
Different OSes for different use cases. You have a job to do. Just use Windows.
If you want to use Linux, use it on your own machines on your own time.
That said, there are a few things you can do if you really want to use Linux:
- Test if the app works on Wine, Proton, etc. Even GPU accelerated apps can work, depending on the software/driver stack.
- Run a Windows VM and pass-through a GPU. That way you’ll get native performance on the app that’s GPU intensive. Use KVM and the CPU overhead will be negligible.
- If you’re doing 3D modeling/rendering, SFX, video editing or ML/AI, there are a lot of options on Linux. Some options that exist in Windows also have Linux versions.
For the life of me I cannot figure out how to run KVM locally. Every tutorial I’ve found is targeted at people doing servers.
FWIW, Photoshop and Illustrator generally work very well through Wine, not sure about CAD so I can’t comment on that.
In general though, yeah, if you have to use some super proprietary Windows-only software, you very well may be out of luck for Linux. In which case, yeah, you have to put up with Windows and jump through whatever hoops Microsoft wants you to jump through.
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No, you are right. In your situation, Linux is just not an option - yet.
I think these posts are meant for the 95% of people that use a browser, and maaaaybe a mail client on their PC.
Photoshop/Illustrator will only ever get ported if enough people have already made the move that Adobe can’t afford to ignore Linux any longer.
That being said, if those requirements are just for work, what’s keeping you on Windows on your private devices?
For people just using a browser and mail, they could just use Android. Samsung Dex is pretty great as a laptop replacement.
The point is to ditch the dependency on a corporate Overlord, not to find a different daddy
Photoshop/Illustrator will only ever get ported if enough people have already made the move that Adobe can’t afford to ignore Linux any longer.
I disagree. They have a strong enough hold on the industry they can resist moving to Linux and it will have the affect of choking Linux’s growth.
Moreover, there’s no way in hell Adobe ever allows their subscription bullshit on a platform that gives the user as much control as Linux. They won’t touch Linux until they can be guaranteed no one will be able to alter or interfere with how their software operates (oppressively).
The issue with Linux going forward is software in general is all moving towards a more locked down, gatekeeping model. The iOS philosophy is infecting every space, from Android to Windows. Linux stands in opposition to that type of control over the user’s system, and therefore tech companies won’t develop for it if the trend continues.
Maybe. But there are third options as well - maybe if Adobe acts like you describe, and there is sufficient Linux adoption, that opens the door for an actual crossplatform competitor.
Or maybe they change their mind when not doing so costs them money.
That’s a fair point, other than I do need to work at home on occasion!
I’ll have a good think about it.
You could switch to Linux at home and just have a windows VM in case you need to do something for work urgently.
If your work requires Windows, then use Windows. Switch to Linux when everything you need is available on it. If alternatives don’t exist, then that’s it.
As a gamer, I’m always going to have at least one Windows PC.
But I’m planning to upgrade next month, and turn my old PC into a non-gaming Linux rig for all non-gaming purposes.
I don’t play every game out there, but in the last couple of years, I’ve not had a reason to switch to Windows to play a game.
Most games these days seem to work fine on Linux, especially with all the work Valve has put in.
When I ran a dual-boot over June and July last summer only about 60% of my library functioned, so for me, it’s just not feasible to go entirely without Windows.
Same here. Its just a much better experience through windows. I made a new system for my daily driver which runs linux and I only turn on my gaming desktop when i want to game. I stream it through steam remote play and it works great
Basically every game without anticheat runs on Linux now
That wasn’t my experience, even with the various compatibility tools.
A lot do though.
There’s Windows 10 LTSC, which gets security updates til 2027. And IoT Enterprise LTSC, which gets security updates until 2032.
“But should you even use those versions?!? They are not meant to be installed on a desktop PC/laptop” - idk, it’s either this or Win11.
For more info on how to install, check https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
For what its worth: I’ve been running enterprise since 2015 (when it was called LTSB) then switched to LTSC IoT around 2021. Its fantastic and doesn’t have all the Candy Crush and other bullshit. I highly recommend.
That plus open shell is what windows 10 should have been.
My biggest concern for using the LTSB IoT is how long third-party application support will remain if Microsoft goes through with dropping support next year. I guess a lot of stuff still works under Windows 7 so maybe it will be fine?
I don’t expect but also won’t be surprised if it ends up being a Windows XP situation where they extend support for Windows 10 several times.
I don’t expect but also won’t be surprised if it ends up being a Windows XP situation where they extend support for Windows 10 several times.
They absolutely will, and they’re planning on this, they’re just not going to announce the true EOL date. The deadline will scare people into upgrading, then they’ll start extending it.
Guys there’s countless tools out there for removing bloat and telemetry and tweaking the UI. it takes like fifteen minutes to make windows 11 completely acceptable for daily usage
The problem is there are many things you can’t disable, remove, or alter, and that will continue to get worse over time.
Just because some bullshit is listed in Winaero Tweaker or whatever as an option to disable doesn’t mean all the bullshit in the system is listed there.
but don’t you lose gaming performance if you’re running newer hardware (I guess this might not matter to you)
I only use the computer for word processing, internet, and playing roguelikes.
Fine. I guess I’ll learn Linux 😒
For those use cases, there’s very little actual learning to be done.
As someone who understands windows fairly well, but until recently couldn’t use the command line to save my life, I started dual booting Ubuntu and it’s pretty easy to figure out once you understand what you’re looking for. Only things I’m still trying to get running are alternatives for the stream deck software, iCUE, and voicemeeter, but I havem’t really invested much time into them yet.
Sometimes people get caught up trying to find exact matches for software, when instead it’s a combination of tools that gets the job done on another OS. The annoying thing is learning new toolsets – but it’s only annoying until you know them.
Yeah I don’t expect to get all the functionality in one piece of software, so I’ll have to cobble it together. Of course, icue depends on the .net framework so it’s not getting ported, and the other 2 just don’t have an official native linux app. Jack mixer is my current target for voicemeeter, but I have to start researching the others at some point.
ICUE has a full replacement, I think it’s called CKB next, I can double check that once I’m home if I remember
I use it to manage my Corsair 12-button mouse and it actually has MORE features and is MORE usable than ICUE ever was
I had heard of CKB next, but I thought it was a general purpose RGB software. Good to know!
It is, I think?
It also does button mapping and supports Corsair shit out of the box, so it’s what I use it for. I planned to use it for the RGB portion as well but it didn’t support other devices and OPEN RGB is right there so I use that for lighting and CKB for mouse buttons and DPI config, smooth as butter experience compared to ICUE never fucking saving anything to memory no matter HOW HARD I TRY WHY ICUE WHY
I feel that pain in my soul! Sometimes my settings get applied, sometimes not, sometimes integrations work, sometimes not, sometimes the app updates properly, sometimes it breaks itself so windows doesn’t know it’s installed and won’t run it, but the installer thinks it’s installed, so it won’t repair it so I have to delete fucking anything I can find from icue, reinstall it, uninstall with revo, and then reinstall fresh and import all my saved profiles, which only sometimes work. Why the fuck is iCUE so goddamn shitty?!
Pipewire has some mixing functionality through tools like pwvucontrol, and graph connections through Helvum.
I’ll have to look into that. Thanks for the info!
Weirdly enough, .Net works relatively well on Linux (at least the core components). Parts of the framework are even various degrees of open sourced.
I do a lot of .NET development at work (back end web APIs). It’s all done in Linux via WSL2. All my code runs in Linux containers on Azure.
I don’t like change! 😣
I’m a government contractor, so I’m stuck on Windows and Microsoft products for work. It really sucks, but the government ain’t switching to Linux anytime soon… if ever. At least Windows 11 Enterprise (or Government, whatever) should have a lot of this shit stripped out. I hope.
Usually at that scale you create images with all this crap removed. When deployment time comes, the machines are reimaged from local/state IT.
I feel bad for the average home user that, at this point views more ads than content, and all this telemetry collection to boot.
I use 11 and don’t see any ads and have telemetry turned off. I’m not sure where this is coming from, but I keep hearing it, and it doesn’t mesh with my experience.
I’ve personally thought about going back to Linux, and I still might next time I upgrade my MOBO, but the thought of all the effort it will take to get all of my hardware working again is exhausting. That was the greatest struggle before I even approached software issues. I’ve heard it is better these days, but I’m not an expert or a programmer, so I’m essentially relying that someone else has had my use case, solved it, and made it publicly available which is not always the case.
If it’s any consolation, and maybe just luck, but I almost have better luck with hardware not with windows.
That could very well be the case. I was on a beater laptop previously that was no longer functioning with windows and I needed something for school. I remember I that I wasn’t able to get the wifi card to work with Linux so I ended up getting an external card. It likely is different now and I have a proper desktop, but the experience was rough and I’m not eager to repeat it, lol.
Oh I remember those days. Having to find an extracted windows driver and using ndiswrapper to patch it in.
That, and I’m just proficient enough with computers to fuck shit up.
