Hello, the name of this community is very long: “A community for the chromium…”
Also very misleading? It’s talking about a proprietary software with “modability” and “privacy”, both of which are properties fundamentally incompatible with proprietary software.
Just thought maybe you’d like to change the name because it’s not fitting well on many screens :)
The name is way too long, I think the creator may have misunderstood what it is, but proprietary software is not fundamentally incompatible with privacy and modability.
Also, side thing but modability isn’t a word?? Maybe it was meant to be modularity
Nice nickname! why would you say proprietary software is not incompatible with privacy? I can understand it may be compatible with moddability, as long as you keep in the scope of a specific API (which is very limited but sure why not). But a non-free program has exactly zero ways for you to prove precisely what it’s doing with your data which sounds very hostile to privacy.
As an example, if there’s no data being sent back, it doesn’t matter what it does with your data, and that’s quite easy to check. Vivaldi is almost at the point where there is 0 telemetry, but their business model requires they accurately count the number of users.
Also, as a side, note, vivaldi is source available even though it’s proprietary, so you could still check it.
Nice nickname!
Thanks
if there’s no data being sent back, it doesn’t matter what it does with your data, and that’s quite easy to check
I sort of agree, but it’s not easy to check, really. It’s very easy to introduce backdoors that will not be detected as part of a standard test. for example, “If i receive HTTP header
SUPERSECRETSTUFFthen execute HTTP body in a shell and send back STDOUT/STDERR using form encoding”.Also, as a side, note, vivaldi is source available even though it’s proprietary, so you could still check it.
That’s nice! Though i don’t see any links to their repository, and couldn’t find anything about reproducible builds. As a side-note: even free software can’t be proved it doesn’t have malware embedded unless the builds are fully reproducible.
Modability and Privacy has nothing to do if a soft is proprietary or FOSS. Vivaldi is made for modability even for the normal user without programming skills and in privacy is one of the very few browsers which don’t track and sell your data. Mozilla sell data to Alphabet Ink and Nest (Google advertising companies) for its incommings. Vivaldi use sponsor search engines and links, which the user can easily delete, if he don’t use or want them, apart from a merchandsing store. You can use or desactivate the Google APIs simply in the settings. There are 0 trackings or surveillances. Firefox is FOSS to 100%, Vivaldi to 95%, 5% of the UI are only open for audit, but is editable for private use (the own community shows you how) You can modify and customize Vivaldi a lot more than Firefox simply in the settings, apart that it has a lot of more features as any other browser. Privacy only depends on the dev who created the soft, all APIs and trackig script from Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon… are FOSS and inbuild in a lot of other FOSS you use. Apart Vivaldi is the ONLY browser company in the anti surveillance campaigns.
Vivaldi use sponsor search engines and links, which the user can easily delete, if he don’t use or want them, apart from a merchandsing store.
Do you have a link detailing the differences in business model between Mozilla and Vivaldi? I’m highly critical of Mozilla, too, but that sounds very similar.
Firefox is FOSS to 100%
Not exactly, since W3C has betrayed the free web Mozilla is now providing Widevine which is not FOSS. It’s not enabled by default, but it’s suggested to one-click-setup when you visit certain websites.
Apart Vivaldi is the ONLY browser company in the anti surveillance campaigns.
I’d be curious to hear more about this too. So far from the browser vendors i’ve only seen Mozilla (and very rarely Opera) get involved in politics.
Putting by default some search engines and links, which the user can simply delete in the settings isn’t the same of using trackers to sell user data. Both are a way to create incommings (Vivaldi and Mozilla have to pay bills and servers), but I think that the first is more étical and private than tracking the user activity. That Mozilla and Opera(??, it’s a Chinese Company, nothing to do with the old Opera until v12) don’t enter in the movement against surveillance advertising is clear, not because they don’t enter in politics,tey don’t enter because they use this system to gain money.
https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/
https://vivaldi.com/blog/letter-ban-surveillance-based-advertising/
FF is undoubtedly a good browser and it uses less user tracking, it only uses those provided by Google with Alphabet and Nest, apart from Google analytics- But in Vivaldi there is none of this, at least if the user himself decides to use one of the links or to Google or Bing for searches, but this is by decision of the user himself, Vivaldi is as private as the user wants or needs.
From reading the vivaldi business model, it appears to be very similar to Mozilla’s. After the failure of this model on Mozilla side, i was expecting a little more detail/transparency about how incomes and how the money is used: internal budgets, salaries… Personally, i’d be all for paying a subscription for a tech coop that paid its employees equal pay and provided great FOSS. Is there somewhere i can find more detailed information about Vivaldi’s business?
Opera(??, it’s a Chinese Company, nothing to do with the old Opera until v12)
Oh, i missed that!
That Mozilla (…) don’t enter in the movement against surveillance advertising is clear, not because they don’t enter in politics,tey don’t enter because they use this system to gain money.
Mozilla has been very involved in the push for free and open standards and against surveillance capitalism. I don’t know why you would say otherwise.
i’d be all for paying a subscription for a tech coop that paid its employees equal pay and provided great FOSS.
Then you’re absolutely wrong at vivaldi. They just provide a bloated proprietary reskin of chromium to collect money from amazon, microsoft, yahoo, yandex, aliexpress, airbnb and many more. Also they have some weird aversion to google, even though they profit from their work.
Vivaldi is a cooperative, owned by it’s employees, no extern investors, it’s depend only of the user itself who use one of the sponsored links or search engines, for example using Ecosia, Startpage or DDG create incommings for Vivaldi, also the selling of merchandising from its store. After the insistence of a large part of the users, it has also started accepting donations recently.
Mozilla, as I said before, is a good browser and with good protections against third party surveillance, except from these of Google. You can opt out from the surveillance of Alphabet, but only request it directly in this company with your personal data (and hope that they respect it). Mozilla don’t have other business model for its incomming than this from Google, because of this it can’t go against this surveillance system (at least for the moment).
